St Louis vs Kansas City (Washington, Clayton: high school, price, club)

[muman]

I've lived in both. I prefer an urban, walkable environment. If you want a good downtown with lots of life to it, you've gotta go with Kansas City. The population of downtown KC is significantly larger (KC is up close to 18,000 vs 11,000 or so in St. Louis) than that of downtown St. Louis, so it feels more alive. Nowadays there's a lot more street level retail, etc, in downtown KC as well. St. Louis just has Laclede's Landing, which isn't very impressive, and the Washington Street area (which I like). I've been in the Laclede's area a couple of times after Cards games over the last year, and my GF and I were 2 of about 20 people walking around, and these were both on weekend nights. Completely dead. Soulard's cool, but I've gotta take the Crossroads, P&L, and City Market over downtown STL.

If you include the surrounding areas of both cities, St. Louis evens it up. I think the geography surrounding St. Louis is nicer/prettier, and it's a larger overall metro area with a little more happening. The 'burbs of KC (esp on the KS side) are very typical and boring with identical houses and crappy chain restaurants going on for miles. Of course, the same could be said for much of suburban STL as well.

You'll hear a lot of St. Louis homers talking it up, but they always have to mention things that happened 50, 75, or 100 years ago. IF they ever shaped up downtown STL and the city regained a lot of its lost population I'd choose STL over KC. However in the meantime, I'd say it's pretty much a toss up.

[stlcitygirl]

I applaud the downtown efforts in KC, and I hope the momentum continues. St Louis has added a few major improvements this year which has made downtown more lively. The new grocery store (Culinaria), City Garden (Citygarden - An urban oasis in downtown St. Louis) and the renovated Post Office Plaza have added a lot more activity in that section of downtown. The problem is downtown needs to be more cohesive between The Landing, Washington Avenue, City Museum and The City Garden. I think the $220 million dollar renovation of St Louis Centre and the renovation of the Gateway Arch grounds will transform the entire area.
If downtown doesn't seem busy, it's because there are so many different areas to hang out and shop. On any given weekend The Loop, Soulard, Central West End, South Grand, Clayton, Downtown Maplewood are all busy with activity. I went to a movie at the Moolah (Midtown) and I couldn't believe all the students out and about. I love being able to go to a cardinals game downtown and jump on the metrolink and meet my friends on The Loop for dinner. And hello, FOREST PARK!!!!
I was just in KC for a wedding, we visited the Power and Light, I think this accounts for the "busier" downtown feel. It is like our Westport on steroids, I would not hang out there if I lived in the area, but I think it has been great for KC's downtown. It brings people in from the suburbs, which is exactly what we need.If our version of P & L (Ballpark Village) ever gets built, I think that would make the solidify the southern edge of downtown, from the stadium to Soulard.

[Brickmama]

Downtown St Louis is has more to it than Washington Ave and Lacledes Landing. The Olive street corrider is bustling with the addition of store and shops. The area west of the ballpark has also added residents. Downtown STL also has roughly 25k more daytime population. In addition I havent discovered 1 street in downtown KC that is more bustling than Washington Ave.

Are you sure you were on Lacledes Landing or Laclede Street Bar and Grille in Midtown? During the summer the Landing has a lot of street life.

[muman]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

Downtown St Louis is has more to it than Washington Ave and Lacledes Landing. The Olive street corrider is bustling with the addition of store and shops. The area west of the ballpark has also added residents. Downtown STL also has roughly 25k more daytime population. In addition I havent discovered 1 street in downtown KC that is more bustling than Washington Ave.

Are you sure you were on Lacledes Landing or Laclede Street Bar and Grille in Midtown? During the summer the Landing has a lot of street life.

I lived in STL for 4 years (Clayton for 2, and Webster for 2), I know Laclede's Landing and Laclede St. Bar and Grille next to SLU.

The last time I was at Laclede's Landing was this summer after the All-Star game. Dead. We also were there earlier in the summer on a Friday at around 10 pm. Same story, dead.

As far as downtown KC not having what Washington Ave has, have you been to downtown KC at all in the last several years?

Sorry STL homers, downtown Louie has along way to go to get back to the 1950's glory years.

[Brickmama]

Yeah I was there 2 weeks ago at the P&L district. 11pm Fri night dead!!! Bars had people but very little street activity!!! Sorry but Washington Ave has it beat when it comes to street life.

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

Downtown STL also has roughly 25k more daytime population.

Unfortunately for KC, many of the companies have moved to KS cuz they have poached businesses from KC... that is the only reason it has a higher daytime population.....

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

Yeah I was there 2 weeks ago at the P&L district. 11pm Fri night dead!!! Bars had people but very little street activity!!! Sorry but Washington Ave has it beat when it comes to street life.

Its been pretty freakin cold out, I wouldn't expect anyone to stay outside for any length of time in the P&L district when the temp is 10 degrees..

so yeah, if it was really dead, thats kind of invalid and not the right perspective to look at it from with the cold weather...

[Brickmama]

Originally Posted by skrizzle

Unfortunately for KC, many of the companies have moved to KS cuz they have poached businesses from KC... that is the only reason it has a higher daytime population.....

Well yeah, while that may be true the same thing has happened in downtown STL. Plenty oF jobs left for the county in the past 20 years. Daytime population used to be over 100k and is now around 80k. In addition the daytime pop in KC had never been close to the levels that STL currently is or has been. So your reasoning is invalid.

Yes it was cold but still there was maybe 5 or 6 people max walking the sidewalks. Thats substantially less than STL even in the winter months. I am comparing apples to apples.

Keep in mind I am not bashing KC. I personally like KC and feel it often gets overlooked and has alot going for as does STL. However when someone makes false claims about STL compared to KC (especially downtowns) I am going to call that person out on it. There are other aspects that KC can claim an edge in but downtown is not one of them.

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

Well yeah, while that may be true the same thing has happened in downtown STL. Plenty oF jobs left for the county in the past 20 years. Daytime population used to be over 100k and is now around 80k. In addition the daytime pop in KC had never been close to the levels that STL currently is or has been. So your reasoning is invalid.

Yes it was cold but still there was maybe 5 or 6 people max walking the sidewalks. Thats substantially less than STL even in the winter months. I am comparing apples to apples.

Keep in mind I am not bashing KC. I personally like KC and feel it often gets overlooked and has alot going for as does STL. However when someone makes false claims about STL compared to KC (especially downtowns) I am going to call that person out on it. There are other aspects that KC can claim an edge in but downtown is not one of them.

I honestly think most people who have been to both cities, would say KC does have the edge in downtowns, you and I obviously disagree, but i've seen it from many people who have been to both places and lived both places, KC has the better more vibrant downtown....

[Brickmama]

See I have seen the opposite. Most people I have discussed this subject with and from other posts I have seen on other boards would side with STL rather than KC. We agree to disagree.