St Louis vs Kansas City (St. Louis, O'Fallon: place to live, shop, safest)

[Brickmama]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I don't know how the boundaries are drawn, but I don't see how Downtown StL comes anywhere close to Downtown KC when it comes to residential. Half of Downtown KC's old office towers are now residential and even some of the post 1980 office towers are condos now. KC has the River Market (which is quite large), upper west side, quality hill, and crossroads too. Not to mention crown center if that's included. Honest question here. Is it really even close in this respect? I personally don't see where StL even comes up with 12k. There is not that much over there on the north side along Wash Ave etc. The bottoms down by the landing has very little. There are few older res towers in the CBD, mostly near 70, but not a lot. The areas immediately west of Downtown are still pretty vacant and most of the city south of market is parking etc for the stadiums and a few hotels.

and while StL does have other popular urban areas outside of downtown, so does KCMO. Midtown, Westport, Plaza, Hyde Park all are very vibrant residential areas. The plaza area probably still built more housing units than downtown during downtown's busiest years, or at least kept up and scores of midrise towers in midtown have been renovated that were vacant or hud housing.

I'm not trying to diss stl here, but I just don't see how StL even comes close to KC in this. Do the Slt Numbers include midtown, slu etc as well or something? Please enlighten me!

KCMO, the majority of the population lives along the Olive Locust, and Washington Ave corridor. Locust and Washington are made up of rehabbed warehouses of about 6-10 stories while the Olive is more traditional condos of about 10-25 stories.

There is some population around Busch Stadium and just north of the dome along Cole and Cass (townhomes and row houses) which is within downtowns boundaries. There are also numerous developments ready to provide more housing once financing is in plance and some other buildings pass through foreclosure. We need it since occupancy rates are above 90% and demand out weighs supply. Growth should not be a problem.

The downtown pop does NOT include Midtown and SLU.

[kcmo]

Yea, I get that, it just seems like KC has much more housing. Who really knows. The bottom line is both cities were damn near war zones less than a decade ago and were perhaps the two worst downtowns in the country outside of detroit. They have both come a long way.

Now MO just needs to build high speed rail between the downtowns along I-70.

[moorlander]

Originally Posted by skrizzle

My friends who live and go to school there say NO college students really go downtown except for games.


And look a STL skyline look at your buildings, how many stick out in design? Zero to me, only the arch.

Fail. Where do I begin. IMO neither KC nor St. Louis have very impressive skylines but StL's is certainly recognizable globally.

St. Louis may not have many shinny new highrises but in terms of historic architecture - downtown St. Louis takes this one in a landslide. Mainly because StL was a far more significant city back in the day. This is not a knock against KC, just a simple fact.

"Now MO just needs to build high speed rail between the downtowns along I-70." +1

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by moorlander

Fail. Where do I begin. IMO neither KC nor St. Louis have very impressive skylines but StL's is certainly recognizable globally.

St. Louis may not have many shinny new highrises but in terms of historic architecture - downtown St. Louis takes this one in a landslide. Mainly because StL was a far more significant city back in the day. This is not a knock against KC, just a simple fact.

"Now MO just needs to build high speed rail between the downtowns along I-70." +1

I think you could say recognizable nationally, not globally. I've been many places overseas, and the only cities they would know of are NYC, LA, and maybe DC and Chicago, and they wouldn't know which is NYC or Chicago if you showed them pictures for the most part. The arch is great, but it's all the skyline has.

Show me the historic architecture that STL has in it's skyline that you thing beats out KC?


STL:












Let's see the Old courthouse is definitely nice, one metropolitan square is not bad... the Thomas F Eagleton courthouse is cool looking....

there ya go.... there might be some street level buildings that look very cool, but KC has tons of those too... looking at the skyline however those and the arch are all that stick out. There is one other building that I can't find the name of in the center third back of the first picture, I think that one looks pretty cool too architecturally.

Now Kansas City....
















Let's see what sticks out in the skyline.... One Kansas City Place, Town Pavilion, Union Station, City Hall, Charles Evan Whittaker Fed Courthouse, Bartle Hall Pylons, and IMO the 2 best buildings downtown KC that i've seen nothing in STL historically that looks as good in size and style:

909 Walnut:



KCP&L Building:




You could also add in Liberty Memorial depending on the view for our skyline, though I don't consider the Liberty Memorial downtown personally, I think its more where midtown starts, but some however do consider it part of it. And this year sometime our skyline will be adding the Kaufmann Performing Arts Center too it which kcmo has already posted pics of...

[STLCityMike]

None of the pictures of St. Louis show the original SBC building - it is hidden in every angle. Based on your architectural taste, I think you would also like it. The building is 28 floors, and 121.0 meters.

I think you would also like the Park Place tower in the West End, and the Continental building in Grand center. I know these are not downtown; I am speaking just to your architectural taste - not your competitive spirit

I think the building you are referring to in the St. Louis picture may be the US Bank building, which is very cool. The design offers many corner offices!

I prefer more modern architecture, but can appreciate the old as well.

There is also another VERY cool building, of which the name escapes me. But, the building is red, and the southwest corner is 'cut out'. I have searched a few sites, but I can not find the name of it. any help out there??

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by STLCityMike

None of the pictures of St. Louis show the original SBC building - it is hidden in every angle. Based on your architectural taste, I think you would also like it. The building is 28 floors, and 121.0 meters.

I think you would also like the Park Place tower in the West End, and the Continental building in Grand center. I know these are not downtown; I am speaking just to your architectural taste - not your competitive spirit

I think the building you are referring to in the St. Louis picture may be the US Bank building, which is very cool. The design offers many corner offices!

I prefer more modern architecture, but can appreciate the old as well.

There is also another VERY cool building, of which the name escapes me. But, the building is red, and the southwest corner is 'cut out'. I have searched a few sites, but I can not find the name of it. any help out there??

I googled SBC building, it is very cool looking as well =) And let me just point out, while I prefer KCs skyline to STL street level I think STL has some great architecture and it would be hard for me to choose, both cities have great areas at street level....

[DSN 577]

The crime rate is based on Per Capita not square miles. St Louis and North St. Louis County are unsafe at any time. Go there at your own risk. I know I was a St. Louis County Police Officer.

[VideoEngineerAJS]

Originally Posted by DSN 577

The crime rate is based on Per Capita not square miles. St Louis and North St. Louis County are unsafe at any time. Go there at your own risk. I know I was a St. Louis County Police Officer.

North County is unsafe at any time? My wife and I just moved to Calverton Park and we go all over North County and we've not felt unsafe at all since we've been here. I've been all over the place and I've seen my share of bad areas all over the country and North County isn't even close to a "bad area." My wife is from a small town in the middle of nowhere in Southern Ohio so she's a little more cautious and paranoid and she doesn't feel unsafe in this area at all.

I wouldn't take my wife to North St. Louis, just like I wouldn't take her to West Dayton, Ohio; the near eastside of Columbus, or midtown Cincinnati, but I have no problem having her live here in Calverton Park. The guy that we are renting from was a Ferguson and a Berkeley police officer and he grew up in the house and I trust him and my own eyes.

Now I may not want to live in Ferguson, Berkeley, or Dellwood, but I haven't had any issues with Florissant, Hazelwood, and Calverton Park.

[3240Redo]

Originally Posted by VideoEngineerAJS

North County is unsafe at any time? My wife and I just moved to Calverton Park and we go all over North County and we've not felt unsafe at all since we've been here. I've been all over the place and I've seen my share of bad areas all over the country and North County isn't even close to a "bad area." My wife is from a small town in the middle of nowhere in Southern Ohio so she's a little more cautious and paranoid and she doesn't feel unsafe in this area at all.

I wouldn't take my wife to North St. Louis, just like I wouldn't take her to West Dayton, Ohio; the near eastside of Columbus, or midtown Cincinnati, but I have no problem having her live here in Calverton Park. The guy that we are renting from was a Ferguson and a Berkeley police officer and he grew up in the house and I trust him and my own eyes.

Now I may not want to live in Ferguson, Berkeley, or Dellwood, but I haven't had any issues with Florissant, Hazelwood, and Calverton Park.

Fair enough. My wife and I live in North St. Louis and we have never felt unsafe or had any bad experiences. We drive all over the City, North and South, and have been fine. We moved here from Webster Groves and we don't regret it.

I suppose the point is that people have different thresholds of comfort. I would be uncomfortable in some neighborhoods, probably, but our neighborhood is extremely safe and the most cohesive community we've experienced.

[VideoEngineerAJS]

Originally Posted by 3240Redo

Fair enough. My wife and I live in North St. Louis and we have never felt unsafe or had any bad experiences. We drive all over the City, North and South, and have been fine. We moved here from Webster Groves and we don't regret it.

I suppose the point is that people have different thresholds of comfort. I would be uncomfortable in some neighborhoods, probably, but our neighborhood is extremely safe and the most cohesive community we've experienced.

Well, like I said, I've been to so many different areas of different cities (every major city in Ohio, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Indianapolis, Louisville, New York, Syracuse, Tampa, and Pittsburgh) that I may not feel as unsafe in certain areas, but I wouldn't take my wife somewhere that I think she would feel uncomfortable. She freaked out in Pittsburgh when she went to school there because she did have a few things happen where she was followed and since she had to walk across downtown Pittsburgh she wasn't comfortable. So not going in certain areas is more or less for my wife's sake.