St Louis vs Kansas City (St. Louis, Independence: layoffs, property taxes, cost)

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by aragx6

The thing that fascinates me most about East St. Louis is how nature is reclaiming it. Much of it has been empty for so long that it's not at all uncommon to see trees growing out of crumbling brick homes. It's a strange, sad, fascinating thing, especially once you study up a bit on the bustling, diverse community East St. Louis once was.

There is actually terminology for this, Arag:

Urban prairie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I heard this term first when someone described Detroit. At under 30k residents now, this city is now a third of its peak size.

[1greatcity]

I wanted to pass along a couple population statistics about Kansas City and St. Louis that I found interesting. We are comparing the suburban population of each city, that is, the MSA population less the city population:

The suburban population of the KC MSA is about 1.4 million. About 57% (800,000) live in Kansas, and about 43% (600,000) live in Missouri.
The suburban population of the STL MSA is about 2.5 million. About 72% (1.8 million) live in Missouri, and about 28% (700,000) live in Illinois.

It strikes me odd that in KC, the majority of suburbanites live in the adjoining state, while in STL, the vast majority live in Missouri. Any thoughts?

[WiseOwlSaysHoot]

Well, first I think there may be something amiss with your stats - The KC metro is over 2 million - if there are 1.4 million in the suburbs, then there would be over 600k in the city. KC city population is about 460k - so you're missing around 150k in those figures.

Also, there is a considerable chunk of the city of KC (the Northland) that is completely suburban in nature, although it falls in the expanded KC city limits. If you added this population, the suburban population between the two states would be pretty much equal.

As to why STL has less on the Illinois side? I couldn't say for sure, but I would guess that part of it has to do with the physical barrier of the river separating the two areas. In most of KC, there is no physical separation between the two states.

[rrast]

I just left St. Louis Missouri.. I have spent tons of hours in the area in my life.. And believe that I can expound on my experience compared to my home town KCMO..

There is not a lot to compare..really.. Downtown's are different... as SL is run down with ageing infrastructure and crumbling buildings.. KC's Power & Light District is far Superior.. The City Museum was nice from a kids perspective.. Just outdated.. The Zoo though free was very poor... Animals were under weigh... Union Station was nothing special... Another building that needs a make over.. Too many people just hanging around Union Station outside not purchasing anything from the vendors... Looks bad..

Regarding the schools..both city districts are in trouble.. The blessing about KCMO it's 314 miles over four counties.. Kansas Citizens children can attend.. Lee's Summit..Raytown.. Park Hill...North Kansas City.....Center..Hickman Mill..

The Plaza and Zona Rosa shopping area's are visually more pleasing also..

SL being land locked with only 48 miles and over three hundred thousand citizens needs room to expand.. But SL county isn't having it...

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by rrast

I just left St. Louis Missouri.. I have spent tons of hours in the area in my life.. And believe that I can expound on my experience compared to my home town KCMO..

There is not a lot to compare..really.. Downtown's are different... as SL is run down with ageing infrastructure and crumbling buildings.. KC's Power & Light District is far Superior.. The City Museum was nice from a kids perspective.. Just outdated.. The Zoo though free was very poor... Animals were under weigh... Union Station was nothing special... Another building that needs a make over.. Too many people just hanging around Union Station outside not purchasing anything from the vendors... Looks bad..

Regarding the schools..both city districts are in trouble.. The blessing about KCMO it's 314 miles over four counties.. Kansas Citizens children can attend.. Lee's Summit..Raytown.. Park Hill...North Kansas City.....Center..Hickman Mill..

The Plaza and Zona Rosa shopping area's are visually more pleasing also..

SL being land locked with only 48 miles and over three hundred thousand citizens needs room to expand.. But SL county isn't having it...

About the Plaza:

We visited in May, and have to say it was underwhelming. It was tantamount to a homogenized outdoor outlet or national brand shopping mall. I was under the impression that there would be local stores of character to shop from. The architecture and the infrastructure were certainly pleasing, however, the choices of shopping I thought were rather ubiquitous. High-end national brand merchandise. The items could be more easily obtained with the click of a mouse button.

My feeling is that unless there is something unique for the plaza to offer and sell, the area will languish in the near future. The weather in KC isn't nice enough year round to faciltiate generic shopping when the masses can shop for the same merchandise on their computers, tax free.

[linicx]

By law the city of St. Louis cannot expand. Missourians in St. Louis tend to live in Missouri because it is cheaper than living in Illinois. There are only two hospitals in the Midwest that rank in the TOP 25 Hospitals in America. Barnes-Jewish and Mayo Clinic. Barnes is in St. Louis.

I lived in and near Missouri for a number of years. If one was to draw a triangle between St. Louis, Springfield and Lake of the Ozarks, and another between KC, Lake of the Ozarks and Springfield, I personally think there is more for families in the St. Louis triangle. Some of the things that come to mind are the Arch, Cardinals, Grants Farm, Six Flags, Jeff City, wineries, natural beauty, and regional events.

St.Louis is a port city, regional transportation hub, and gateway to the southwest. The only Garden of Eden I ever found was a Tulsa restaurant.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by rrast

I just left St. Louis Missouri.. I have spent tons of hours in the area in my life.. And believe that I can expound on my experience compared to my home town KCMO..

There is not a lot to compare..really.. Downtown's are different... as SL is run down with ageing infrastructure and crumbling buildings.. KC's Power & Light District is far Superior.. The City Museum was nice from a kids perspective.. Just outdated.. The Zoo though free was very poor... Animals were under weigh... Union Station was nothing special... Another building that needs a make over.. Too many people just hanging around Union Station outside not purchasing anything from the vendors... Looks bad..

Regarding the schools..both city districts are in trouble.. The blessing about KCMO it's 314 miles over four counties.. Kansas Citizens children can attend.. Lee's Summit..Raytown.. Park Hill...North Kansas City.....Center..Hickman Mill..

The Plaza and Zona Rosa shopping area's are visually more pleasing also..

SL being land locked with only 48 miles and over three hundred thousand citizens needs room to expand.. But SL county isn't having it...

Most everything in this post is inaccurate, but the bolded is beyond inaccurate and into inflammatory -- how awful and ridiculous a thing to say.

And P&L being superior to Wash Av and Laclede's Landing combined is frankly laughable.

But seriously, that underweight animals thing is just malarky and makes me really angry.

[glamatomic]

Union Station was nothing special... Another building that needs a make over

You've got to be kidding... the Union Station renovation was one of the costliest and largest renovations in U.S. history! It's perfectly fine! I'll admit that the mall section is shabby and the 'garden wing' of the (now Marriott) hotel could use some help- but the main building or 'head house' as it's known within the hotel is absolutely STUNNING. I should know. I worked there for some years.

As for everything else- St. Louis has SO much to offer... I'm inclined to think that either rrast didn't see enough of The Lou or is just trolling

[aragx6]

^And it is, in fact, about to get a makeover (at least the hotel for now).

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by rrast

I just left St. Louis Missouri.. I have spent tons of hours in the area in my life.. And believe that I can expound on my experience compared to my home town KCMO..

There is not a lot to compare..really.. Downtown's are different... as SL is run down with ageing infrastructure and crumbling buildings.. KC's Power & Light District is far Superior.. The City Museum was nice from a kids perspective.. Just outdated.. The Zoo though free was very poor... Animals were under weigh... Union Station was nothing special... Another building that needs a make over.. Too many people just hanging around Union Station outside not purchasing anything from the vendors... Looks bad..

Regarding the schools..both city districts are in trouble.. The blessing about KCMO it's 314 miles over four counties.. Kansas Citizens children can attend.. Lee's Summit..Raytown.. Park Hill...North Kansas City.....Center..Hickman Mill..

The Plaza and Zona Rosa shopping area's are visually more pleasing also..

SL being land locked with only 48 miles and over three hundred thousand citizens needs room to expand.. But SL county isn't having it...

It's funny, I've got a Mizzou buddy from KC who came in to STL for the Mizzou/Illinois basketball game a few years ago. We hit the bars in Soulard after the game, and he kept saying how great it was, how KC had nothing on a par with Soulard.

I personally like KC, but I think STL stacks up very well with KC and in some respects passes it.