St Louis vs Kansas City (St. Louis, St. Joseph: middle-class, fit in, renting)

[razzy]

I may be moving to one of those cities in the next 3-4 years. I have young kids and my wife will be attending med school, so I'll need to pick a city that has good public schools and affordable housing in those school districts, as well as a thriving, growing economy. I'll need a pretty good sized house that doesnt cost a fortune, whether it be owning or renting.

So which is the better city to live in? Lets discuss. I have my own opinion on which I think is the better city, and I'll discuss why later after I see some responses and gather my thoughts better. This includes the suburbs of both cities, btw. Since the schools that my wife would be potentially attending are all in the cities themselves, decent access and proximity to those areas figure into this also.

[stlouisredbirds]

I live in Overland Park, Kansas, which is a suburb of Kansas City. Kansas City is decent for raising kids, and its.... economically stable. There is no doubt in my mind however, that St. Louis, Missouri is a better city. (I also plan to move there). My Uncle, and aunt live in Chesterfield, Missouri, a suburb of St. Louis, and loves it. They are both doctors, and they both work in the city though they are about 25 minutes out. What schools is she considering? In Kansas City there would be UMKC, and University of Kansas - Edwards Campus. In St. Louis there would be Washington University, and SLU if they have the program. Don't really have time to go over it, but I will tell you now that St. Louis is the better city with far more to do, far more things to see, and with far more possibilities residentially, with jobs, and with public schooling.

Overland Park, which is about 45 minutes from KC does have a great school system. Blue Valley, and Shawnee Mission are the two districts. Also I would check into Olathe, Kansas (Also 45 or so). But then again... Chesterfield, Clayton, and St. Charles do as well, and they are 25 minutes away from the DT.

[kmflan]

I have only ever been through St. Louis, but I have lived in KC for over 12 years and I love it. Art, theatre, architecture, symphony, dance, Plaza, Westport, all four seasons, very affordable housing market with all choices available, ethnically diverse, fantastic restaurants, tradionally/organic farmers' market, progressive health care mentality ( I am a nurse), pedestrian friendly neighborhoods, Katy Trail, Irish Festival...I could go on

[Ozarks21]

My experience with people from both places is extensive. I like the KC folks better in aggregate, though I have many friends from St. Louis. To stereotype somewhat, the St. Louis people tend to be more "Eastern" and KC folks more "Western".

The St. Louis expression, "where did you go to highschool?" is the equivelant of the deep south question, "what does your daddy do?" I find St. Louisans to be more materialistic, and self absorbed. Keep in mind I mean this in relative terms. They are still more polite and engaging than my abrasive friends from the east coast. They are just not as folksy as their cousins to the West. I prefer folksy to sophisticated.

[christina0001]

I am in NJ, moving to the KC area in August. I have spent equal time (but not a lot of time) in both KC and St. Louis, as a visitor. I love St. Louis, I think it's beautiful, but the high crime rate scared me off. St. Louis is the #1 most dangerous city in the nation; Kansas City is #16. #16 is not great either (and I'm spoiled; I lived in the #1 safest city, Brick, NJ, for a few years), but I can't bring myself to consider living anywhere near the most dangerous city in the country. We plan to start a family in the next year or so and our main reason for moving is to provide our future children with a better life.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2135998.shtml

St. Louis has better hospitals. The economy seemed equal to me between both cities, but for what my husband and I do, Kansas City actually pays higher on average than St. Louis does. Being from New Jersey, I was not impressed by the stats for schools in either metro area. I've been doing tons of research on this, and definitely some districts perform far better than others. Here's a great newspaper article to help compare KC area schools and districts:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...ing_the_grade/

Whatever you choose, best of luck to you. It's not an easy decision to make. Both cities have some wonderful amenities and I'm sure you'll be able to determine which is right for you and your family.

[northbayeric]

This may be one area where St. Louis and Los Angeles have something in common. I'm referring to how short a distance you can travel in going from a very dangerous area to one that's safe. The north part of St. Louis is horrendous, and the St. Louis city public schools are in a state of chaos. If, for example you drive from downtown St. Louis on Interstate 44 and go as far as Webster Groves (about 5-6 miles), then you're in a fine, safe middle-class area. Continue west on I-44 to Kirkwood, Sunset Hills and Fenton, and you're not only in safe areas, but the school districts (particularly Rockwood and Parkway) are considered pretty prestigious. You'd never guess you're only 10 to 15 miles from downtown St. Louis. Therefore, its dubious reputation for being America's most dangerous city should be a concern, but it by no means should terrify anyone from moving to the St. Louis metro area, just certain regions of it.

Essentially, Christina is right--KC versus STL comes down to your own personal preferences. The St. Louis area is probably prettier geographically, especially going out I-44 past Sunset Hills, I-55 past Arnold, and State Highway 30 going southwest from I-270. Beautiful green tree-covered hills and rock bluffs. I'm not as familiar with Kansas City, but have heard great things about Lee's Summit and Liberty, as well as the down-to-earth friendliness of people in the KC area in general. Interesting comment from Ozarks21. When I grew up in Florissant before moving to Santa Rosa in 1986, I never really noticed the people seeming more "Eastern", but now that I look back and have had a chance to revisit St. Louis three times since 2003, I can kind of see how you could notice that in places, especially in liberal University City and Clayton. Most of the area though seems folksy and much more culturally Southern than it does here in Santa Rosa, which feels way more Eastern than Western (as it does when you reach the Sierra foothills east of Sacramento. When you reach Placerville going east, it feels like you're in a different state in terms of culture!). Anyway, my wife and I are also looking forward to living a new life in St. Joseph and getting more familiar with KC. All the best, Christina, and thanks for the KC schools link! No children yet, but when it comes to "planned parenthood," we're trusting in God and His perfect timing and plan for us!

[razzy]

Thanks for the replies. In my research so far, I am finding it easier, price-wise, to live in a 4 br house (we have 6 kids including triplet girls that are almost 3) in a good public school district in the Kansas City area than in the St Louis area. Sure, Clayton and Chesterfield are great, but we cant afford to live there. We can find 4 br houses for around $150,000 in places like Liberty, Blue Springs, N Kansas City/Parkville area (Park Hill school district), Lees Summit, Prairie Village KS, etc areas. I do the same search in the St Louis area, and I cant buy the same house for 150k in an area like O'Fallon, Missouri, for example. I could find such a house in South St Louis County (the older areas) and in North County, but for the money and schools and aesthetics, I'd rather live in the afore-mentioned areas in Kansas City. They seem like nicer areas to me.

As far as med schools, she would be looking at UMKC or University of Kansas med school in Kansas City Kansas right by the Missouri border, or St Louis U in St Louis. Washington U is out of the question, costs too much and probably too competitive to realistically get into.

So right now, with two med school choices and easier to buy a decent sized house (nothing fancy) in a good public school district, I am definitely leaning towards KC. But I will continue to listen and read what I can.

[kmflan]

Yay! Come to KC You will love it here. You could buy my house- 4bd/3ba- except I am south in Belton, which is an awesome place to live, totally booming. But we do have 7 kids and we all fit in it P

[brightmidnight]

Originally Posted by christina0001

I love St. Louis, I think it's beautiful, but the high crime rate scared me off. St. Louis is the #1 most dangerous city in the nation; Kansas City is #16.

This is not true. The statistics are flawed; they compare actual city limits. STL is limited by law in its city limits-- it can't expand and annex other cities in (such as Clayton, Ladue, etc.) It has remained the same size since those laws were enacted, unlike most big cities which annex the outlying (usually crime-free) suburbs in. St. Louis has city limits of 61 square miles compared to 234 for Chicago and 318 FOR KANSAS CITY. The crime statistics are taken and averaged out by the square mile. St. Louis gets divided 61 times and Kansas City gets divided 318 times. Now are you seriously going to tell me that STL is much more dangerous than KC? Chicago is much more dangerous, as is Kansas City and almost every other big city in America. Being from NJ, you may be familiar with NYC-- it's much safer than it used to be but it's still not as safe as St. Louis. If you avoid the one or two neighborhoods that are bad, you will be safer in St. Louis than almost anywhere.

Chicago covers 234 square miles
Memphis covers 314 squre miles
Kansas City covers 318 square miles
Houston covers 602 squre miles

These cities are all more dangerous than St. Louis. Those studies are very misleading about actual safety and if you're making a decision on where to live based on them, you're honestly making a mistake because they give a false impression.

[brightmidnight]

Original poster--

What about looking on the Illinois side of the river for houses? Edwardsville, O'Fallon, Troy are all great towns about 15-20 minutes away from downtown St. Louis. You can probably buy a great house and land for the money you'll be spending. You can also use MetroLink from there.