In what ways is Southern Missouri southern, and in what ways is it not? (Kansas City: college, living in)

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Most people I know say "soda". Not sure why.

[Chris19]

I notice that Missouri is somewhat of a transition state and most of it would definitely fall or lean into the Midwestern category, with enough areas have subtle southern influences.

In my experiences of having been in and through Missouri at least a dozen times, I often view I-70 as a dividing line where people north of it (similar to Kansas) talk similar to those in Iowa, Eastern Nebraska, SE South Dakota (south of Sioux Falls-those north of SF have a noticeable Fargo/Minnesota accent), Illinois, Indiana, and Northern Kansas (a neutral Midwestern accent) and some along and many people south of I-70 definitely have a drawl (not as strong as the drawl in Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Tennessee, but noticeable). I notice a similar thing with central and eastern Kansas (east of US 81/I-135/southern leg of the Kansas Turnpike).

Northern Missouri is definitely like an extension of southern Iowa, hilly farmland with trees in low spots and in the river valleys. Definitely a Midwestern mentality. Ozarks region is mixed and SE Missouri is southern.

One notices more of the transition from the Midwest to the west in Kansas than in Missouri. Kansas starts out as very green lands in the east (resembling a lot of Missouri) and end up as wide open grasslands (some hilly and some tabletop flat) with very limit amount of trees in the west (by the Colorado border). The Great Plains states (North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas) have the most noticeable transitions from the greener lands of the east to the arid lands of the west and there are some very good examples of each state that exemplifies that point. The very eastern part of Texas is like the South with lots of trees and is like Arizona and New Mexico in the western reaches. South Dakota is like Iowa (farmland) and Minnesota (da lakes) in the east and like Wyoming/Colorado/Montana in the west with open ranges and the Black Hills (a miniture version of the Rockies and formed about the same time as the Rockies).

I would consider Missouri more of transition area between the Midwest and the South similar to Kentucky similar to Kentucky, south central and SE Kansas, and southern halves of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. As mentioned before, Missouri has more Midwestern characteristics and is often alligned as such, but there is definitely transition between the Midwest and the South there. Nonetheless, I find Missouri to be interesting and have good things to say about the people, scenery, and its characteristics.

[Chris19]

Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989

Most people I know say "soda". Not sure why.

Many people in the Midwest, especially the Upper Midwest, call soft drinks "pop" but I have heard it referred to soda in other areas of the nation. I know that in Iowa, they say "pop" and my guess is that most in northern and central parts of Missouri would call it "pop" also. Now, this is making me curious and I should observe more carefully when heading to Kansas City in a little over a month for a conference and in two months passing through going to Mississippi when I stop at a gas station or eating place to have my fix of Mt. Dew, Coke, or Dr. Pepper.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Chris19

I notice that Missouri is somewhat of a transition state and most of it would definitely fall or lean into the Midwestern category, with enough areas have subtle southern influences.

In my experiences of having been in and through Missouri at least a dozen times, I often view I-70 as a dividing line where people north of it (similar to Kansas) talk similar to those in Iowa, Eastern Nebraska, SE South Dakota (south of Sioux Falls-those north of SF have a noticeable Fargo/Minnesota accent), Illinois, Indiana, and Northern Kansas (a neutral Midwestern accent) and some along and many people south of I-70 definitely have a drawl (not as strong as the drawl in Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Tennessee, but noticeable). I notice a similar thing with central and eastern Kansas (east of US 81/I-135/southern leg of the Kansas Turnpike).

Northern Missouri is definitely like an extension of southern Iowa, hilly farmland with trees in low spots and in the river valleys. Definitely a Midwestern mentality. Ozarks region is mixed and SE Missouri is southern.

One notices more of the transition from the Midwest to the west in Kansas than in Missouri. Kansas starts out as very green lands in the east (resembling a lot of Missouri) and end up as wide open grasslands (some hilly and some tabletop flat) with very limit amount of trees in the west (by the Colorado border). The Great Plains states (North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas) have the most noticeable transitions from the greener lands of the east to the arid lands of the west and there are some very good examples of each state that exemplifies that point. The very eastern part of Texas is like the South with lots of trees and is like Arizona and New Mexico in the western reaches. South Dakota is like Iowa (farmland) and Minnesota (da lakes) in the east and like Wyoming/Colorado/Montana in the west with open ranges and the Black Hills (a miniture version of the Rockies and formed about the same time as the Rockies).

I would consider Missouri more of transition area between the Midwest and the South similar to Kentucky similar to Kentucky, south central and SE Kansas, and southern halves of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. As mentioned before, Missouri has more Midwestern characteristics and is often alligned as such, but there is definitely transition between the Midwest and the South there. Nonetheless, I find Missouri to be interesting and have good things to say about the people, scenery, and its characteristics.

I think U.S. Highway 50 is the better dividing line in terms of dialects (and this is roughly only 40 miles south of Interstate 70). In St. Louis, there is no change in dialect south of Interstate 70. The same with Kansas City. Dialect maps don't even place the change in dialect until you are around the latitude of Lebanon, Missouri, and even then dialects are still heavily mixed. South of Highway 60 is when dialects become more or less all Southern. The thing I do not agree in is the way you affiliate Missouri being a transition zone like Kentucky. Kentucky is really not much in the way of a transition zone. It is an overall Southern state. The region north of U.S. Highway 60 is culturally mixed, but is only definitively Midwestern once you approach the part that is in the Cincinnati metro area. Other than that, I'm in agreement with much of the rest of what you say. Once you are in Kentucky, little Midwestern influence remains. The culture, dialects, and lifestyle and politics and mentality of that state are pretty much over 80% Southern. Louisville and Lexington are every bit cities of the New South. That is not a characteristic of Missouri's two major cities, St. Louis and KAnsas City. These two cities coincide with the Northern half of the state culturally. They are Midwestern.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by jackhitts

I've seen rednecks in northern Michigan with Confederate flags. So I dunno.

As far as the St. Louis accent, though, I've noticed a few idiosyncrasies differentiating it from its Midwestern cousins. For example:
1) How you say "St. Louis." A lot of people from other parts of the Midwest pronounce it "Saint Louis," carefully enunciating every syllable. But St. Louisians tend to run it together into two quick ones so that it sounds like "Sane Loose" said really fast.
2) The "farty fahr" is definitely something I notice.
3) Weird vowel sounds that I can't quite put a finger on. The Chicago and Michigan accents are notable for their upper nasaly twang, so that "mom" sounds like "maaaahm." St. Louis accent has a different sort of twist to this, but I can't quite differentiate it.
4) Soda. Why is it that people in Missouri say soda when most of the rest of the Midwest says "pop"? I mean, this is a common argument but it seems like Missouri is surrounded by states where "pop" is the norm (Iowa, Illinois, Kansas) or even "coke" in Oklahoma, but for some reason Missourians go with pop. Weird.

Number 3 makes me raise an eyebrow. Agree on the number 2, however it is something I tend to notice pronounced in a lot of the Upper Midwest and even Northeast. We say it "mahhm."Number 1, I tend to say it like that, but that's usually a choice....if I am careful I will sound like that too. I guess people from here say it a lot more often than people outside of here, s don't feel the need to take the time. No clue why we say soda, we just do. However, the entire eastern shore of Wisconsin says it too.

[jackhitts]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Number 3 makes me raise an eyebrow. Agree on the number 2, however it is something I tend to notice pronounced in a lot of the Upper Midwest and even Northeast. We say it "mahhm."Number 1, I tend to say it like that, but that's usually a choice....if I am careful I will sound like that too. I guess people from here say it a lot more often than people outside of here, s don't feel the need to take the time. No clue why we say soda, we just do. However, the entire eastern shore of Wisconsin says it too.

Number 3's so subtle that I doubt anyone would notice it if they weren't kinda nerdy and interested already about language and dialects like I am.

Also...do people in St. Louis say "WaRshington" like they do in Central MO?

[STLCardsBlues1989]

You hear Warshington sometimes. I'm not sure if that is a St. Louis thing or a Missouri thing.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by Hillman

STLCardsBlues1989 you can not be serious about being flat and raising Cotton as being Southern.There is way too many places in the deep South that is hilly and don't grow Cotton and is geared more to Timber production the same as many parts of Missouri.As matter fact timber is Louisianas main cash crop.

hillman

um, its called the Delta????? My people are from that area, the same area as CaliBassmans, and its just as southern as can be. As a matter of fact, i cant think of anything midwestern about the Delta, my folks have lived in that area since before the counties were platted out.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989

You hear Warshington sometimes. I'm not sure if that is a St. Louis thing or a Missouri thing.

I think its a general Missouri thing, I have heard that from folks all over Mizzou.

[Chris19]

Originally Posted by ajf131

I think U.S. Highway 50 is the better dividing line in terms of dialects (and this is roughly only 40 miles south of Interstate 70). In St. Louis, there is no change in dialect south of Interstate 70. The same with Kansas City. Dialect maps don't even place the change in dialect until you are around the latitude of Lebanon, Missouri, and even then dialects are still heavily mixed. South of Highway 60 is when dialects become more or less all Southern. The thing I do not agree in is the way you affiliate Missouri being a transition zone like Kentucky. Kentucky is really not much in the way of a transition zone. It is an overall Southern state. The region north of U.S. Highway 60 is culturally mixed, but is only definitively Midwestern once you approach the part that is in the Cincinnati metro area. Other than that, I'm in agreement with much of the rest of what you say. Once you are in Kentucky, little Midwestern influence remains. The culture, dialects, and lifestyle and politics and mentality of that state are pretty much over 80% Southern. Louisville and Lexington are every bit cities of the New South. That is not a characteristic of Missouri's two major cities, St. Louis and KAnsas City. These two cities coincide with the Northern half of the state culturally. They are Midwestern.

Very good points and assesment. To me, some in KC and St. Louis seem southern, but then it may seem that way to someone in the Dakotas and Minnesota but not that way as much to others. I agree that most of Kenucky alligns more with the south than it does with the Midwest and I sometime wonder why some people allign Kentucky with the Midwest.

The Mennonite and Amish communities make Missouri more similar in that regard with other Midwestern states such as Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, and Minnesota. South Dakota has Mennonites, but most of those are well integrated with everyone else, and Hutterites that may be more similar to the old order Mennonites. My grandpa on my dad's side was a Mennonite.

I agree that Missouri has more Midwestern characteristics and a lot of the smaller towns especially are very similar to smaller towns in Iowa in feel and people wise.