In what ways is Southern Missouri southern, and in what ways is it not? (Springfield: hotel, living)

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

A large Amish population is present near Seymour, about half an hour east of Springfield. Scattered Amish families also reside in Texas County near Raymondville, and quite a few Mennonites live just east of West Plains in Howell County. I wouldn't consider the Amish or Mennonite population large in the Ozarks, but it is very much alive.

I-44 between roughly Rolla and Eureka also seems to serve as a dividing line between the majority-Midwestern influences and beginnings of the Southern influences in the Ozarks. Driving north-south on US 63, you see a very large change south of Rolla. Many of the small towns south of Jefferson City, like Westphalia and Freeburg have large, ornate Catholic churches, which are absent in towns like Licking, Edgar Springs, and Houston. There, the churches tend to be overwhelmingly Protestant. The land is also a lot more open north of I-44, and south of the interstate it becomes more forested. Towns like Edgar Springs and Licking seem to be much poorer than the corresponding towns north of I-44, and both have empty storefronts downtown, while the towns north of the interstate are more lively and well-kept. Some of the differences are no doubt due to the large German influence north of I-44, but regardless, Potosi, Steelville, Licking, and Houston have a completely different "feel" to them than Vienna or Linn.

I agree about the feel, but Potosi believe it or not when I was there seemed like an old Midwestern town. The only difference appeared to be the geography, which is neither really Southern or Midwestern, but that of the Ozarks. I heard no Southern accents in Potosi. The Ozarks are a very culturally mixed and unique region..they draw both Midwestern and Southern influences. It has the karst features of the Upland South, but retains the Midwestern forests and prairie. The soil is much shallower. Potosi and Farmington are deceptively not as Southern as they may at first be perceived. The Southern influences I don't think begin to dominate until you are around Pilot Knob or Poplar Bluff. The overall point is, as a whole state, the overall way in which it leans is Midwestern, though there are clearly some parts that lean more Southern.

[dakota79]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Every state is like that though. Ohio has influences from Pennsylvania, Kentucky, West Virginia, Indiana, and Michigan, Indiana has influences from Kentucky, Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio, Illinois has influences from Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri, and Kentucky. There is definitely a defining line, are you kidding me? When you can point out characteristics of Arkansas and Kentucky in the Northern half of Missouri, I might believe you. The Northern half of Missouri, including St. Louis and Kansas City, is like Illinois, Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska. And to whoever said sweet tea was prominent, if it's Jackson County you are talking about, I have to call that a bluff unless you are talking about Cracker Barrel. Sweet tea in most of Missouri is about as prominent as it is in Illinois. And yes, both Illinois and Missouri in the extreme southern parts sell sweet tea. The Northern half of Missouri has a definitive identity. The Southern half does not. It is not an even cultural mix, not by far. At least 2/3 of the state leans more Midwestern. Joplin and Springfield I agree are very mixed, but to draw that conclusion about all of Missouri isn't true. St. Louis, and Kansas City are solidly Midwestern cities. Southern influences, while there, are mostly just that in most of the state except in south central Missouri below Rolla and Farmington and below Cape Girardeau in the Mississippi Delta.

I was not saying that only Missouri is like the states it borders. But not very many have the mix of Southern, Midwestern, and Western all within their border.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by dakota79

I was not saying that only Missouri is like the states it borders. But not very many have the mix of Southern, Midwestern, and Western all within their border.

It's not an even mix though. That's the thing. The Northern half of the state is solidly Midwestern. 1/2 of Southern Missouri is more Midwestern with Southern influences, 1/2 of it is more Southern. Overall, it is Midwestern. The Great Plains are also generally considered to be part of the Midwest.

[MimzyMusic]

it's definitely the South. but it's the very "shallow" South

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by MimzyMusic

it's definitely the South. but it's the very "shallow" South

I disagree. Most of Southern Missouri doesn't sell sweet tea in its restaurants, and it retains the Midwestern prairie grass and forests...the lifestyle because of the geography is like that of the Upper South somewhat, but dairy farming is a big deal in most of the state, and crop growth is absent only because of the shallowness of the soil. Much of Southern Missouri's towns were once industrial and oriented with manufacturing, mainly mining. It has a more Southern appearance to it and is topographically different from a lot of the Midwest, but the accents, cuisine, and culture of it are mixed and have both Midwestern and Southern influences. It has both noticeable Midwestern and Southern influences. My dad is from Joplin, and he definitely does not fully identify with the South. Joplin and Springfield are a cultural crossroads, like most of Southern Missouri. Except where topography is concerned, it is no more southern than Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana and pretty much culturally identical. It feels far less southern than Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia, the northernmost Southern states.

[MimzyMusic]

Originally Posted by ajf131

I disagree. Most of Southern Missouri doesn't sell sweet tea in its restaurants, and it retains the Midwestern prairie grass and forests...the lifestyle because of the geography is like that of the Upper South somewhat, but dairy farming is a big deal in most of the state, and crop growth is absent only because of the shallowness of the soil. Much of Southern Missouri's towns were once industrial and oriented with manufacturing, mainly mining. It has a more Southern appearance to it and is topographically different from a lot of the Midwest, but the accents, cuisine, and culture of it are mixed and have both Midwestern and Southern influences. It has both noticeable Midwestern and Southern influences. My dad is from Joplin, and he definitely does not fully identify with the South. Joplin and Springfield are a cultural crossroads, like most of Southern Missouri. Except where topography is concerned, it is no more southern than Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana and pretty much culturally identical. It feels far less southern than Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia, the northernmost Southern states.

Is there like a huge change crossing into Arkansas?

[Hillman]

Originally Posted by MimzyMusic

Is there like a huge change crossing into Arkansas?

Don't see that much change until you get South of Little Rock.

hillman

[GraniteStater]

I agree. Most of the vegetation in the Ozarks of northern Arkansas seems fairly similar to what you find in southern Missouri. The only exception is that northern Arkansas seems to have more pine trees.

[OA 5599]

The accent does seem to change to more of a true Southern accent seemingly as soon as you cross into Arkansas, but overall the culture of the Missouri and Arkansas Ozarks are quite similar. I do completely agree that once you get to Little Rock, you are 100% in the South. Little Rock is a true Southern city and is culturally quite different than anywhere in Missouri.

There are some differences in the Missouri and Arkansas Ozarks though, although not necessarily cultural. Mountain Home seems to be a far nicer town that its closest counterpart in Missouri (West Plains), and the landscape is much, much more rugged and rural. You'll get into some real wilderness in northern Arkansas, elk have even been re-introduced along the Buffalo River. I drive through northern Arkansas every time I head back to Missouri, and find it to be a very, very beautiful place. I hate to say it, but the scenery in the Boston Mountains puts the Missouri side of the Ozarks to shame.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by ajf131

I think U.S. Highway 50 is the better dividing line in terms of dialects (and this is roughly only 40 miles south of Interstate 70). In St. Louis, there is no change in dialect south of Interstate 70. The same with Kansas City. Dialect maps don't even place the change in dialect until you are around the latitude of Lebanon, Missouri, and even then dialects are still heavily mixed. South of Highway 60 is when dialects become more or less all Southern. The thing I do not agree in is the way you affiliate Missouri being a transition zone like Kentucky. Kentucky is really not much in the way of a transition zone. It is an overall Southern state. The region north of U.S. Highway 60 is culturally mixed, but is only definitively Midwestern once you approach the part that is in the Cincinnati metro area. Other than that, I'm in agreement with much of the rest of what you say. Once you are in Kentucky, little Midwestern influence remains. The culture, dialects, and lifestyle and politics and mentality of that state are pretty much over 80% Southern. Louisville and Lexington are every bit cities of the New South. That is not a characteristic of Missouri's two major cities, St. Louis and KAnsas City. These two cities coincide with the Northern half of the state culturally. They are Midwestern.

Wow a highway divides dialects in America, it's almost like how villages divide dialects in England!