Why you should be careful before moving anywhere (St. Louis, Springfield: motel, houses)

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

What? A slicker who isn't a materialist? Well, maybe you'll be able to handle the lack of shopping after all. I doubt it, but we'll see.
You're right. I don't care for newcomers moving into Missouri. Your presence changes the personality of the state, particularly our region. That change usually isn't for the better.
Nothing I can do to stop it, though, so I'll have to try to learn to deal with you.

And I suppose those people in Rolla cruising down Kingshighway in jacked-up Super Dutys trucks with a $6,000 four-wheeler in the bed aren't materialistic? Materialism is widespread and can be found in the smallest Ozark town (it certainly existed, and still does exist in my hometown) or the wealthiest suburb.

Missouri has not experienced the effects of massive growth and exodus from other areas to our state, like places such as North Carolina, Texas, Florida, Arizona, and California (up until a few years ago) experienced. In the Ozarks, the scarcity of decent paying jobs keeps nearly all city-slickers from moving there, unless they are retirees (who I welcome to the area, it is a great place to retire, and they really help out the local economy). Plus, most of those "materialistic city-slickers" like to migrate to warmer climates, and lets face it, a Missouri winter can be quite harsh. They generally head to the sunbelt instead.

Without the creation of at least modest-paying jobs in the rural portions of Missouri, the area simply can't grow fast and will likely never deviate in character much from what it is today. Come down to Austin if you want to see a place dealing with real growing pains and a massive influx of people from other states.

[Silvermouse]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

And I suppose those people in Rolla cruising down Kingshighway in jacked-up Super Dutys trucks with a $6,000 four-wheeler in the bed aren't materialistic?

Well now I'd hate to run our ranch without a 1 ton truck or a 4wheeler. They're both work animals for us. Course, they haven't been pretty enough to cruise with in years.

[ozarksboy]

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

'tis always good that a person, no matter their religious background & belief [or maybe more importantly those that have such strong beliefs], can be so welcoming to their neighbors... and not so judgmental of others. Does it really matter where a person is born? Is it not more important to give all a chance, the benefit of the doubt? Even those that are born in another state? Even if a person was born in, for example, Georgia? Good grief - what difference does it make... suppose by that way of thinking that then there are no Missouri-born folks that are suspect in their ways too that cause you angst, that you then have to deal with them too?




True. But can you show me a state, a region, a country, that hasn't changed considerably in that time span?

Hobbs, I'm trying to HELP these folks. You and OA and Lake Junkie and others have the viewpoint that you're being kind to these outsiders by telling them how wonderful life is in the Ozarks. I think that is unfair to them. They need ALL the information they can amass before selling out and moving to rural Missouri. Far too many of them get here and then realize they've made a mistake. I want to warn them that life here isn't all barbershop quartets and ice cream socials. Country or small-town life is way different from what they've experienced. They're surprised to experience culture shock and then they (and you) are upset when I laugh and say, "What the heck did you expect?"

No, it doesn't matter where they were born. What matters is where they spent their formative years or where they've been the biggest part of their working lives. I was born in Georgia because my dad was in the Air Force. Three months later, he headed to Japan for a year and my mother took the Ozarks Boy home to his grandparents to wait for Daddy to return. I spent my formative years as a hillbilly, raised by hillbillies, so I love this place. People who spent their formative years in the city, or who moved to the city for education and jobs and never returned and now want to move back have got a whole lot of adapting to do. People who think they are born to be country folks because grandma and grandpa lived in the country are simply naive or just plain silly.

So, no, I don't think the Christian thing is to welcome them without warning them. My experience here in Rolla has been that people who move to this area from the city are disappointed in the lack of shopping, the lack of artistic and cultural opportunities, all that whole litany of stuff. And this is a university town! Think of the metro folks who move off to Cabool or Licking, both good places for good ole boys like me, but not a good place for the more "sophisticated."

Good grief, Hobbs, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt? That's unfair to them. They're selling everything they own, leaving family and friends and memories behind and moving off to a geography, geology and socio-economic structure that is foreign to them. You think it's kind to fill them full of tales of floating and fishing and rock-climbing. Again, that's all wonderful stuff, but what are they going to do with the rest of their time? Generally speaking, they want to go do some "serious shopping" because that's what metro people apparently do, but in Cabool or Licking or Boss, they ain't no place to power shop. They ain't no place for that in Rolla! I want them to know that, and I want them to understand that they're going to miss the so-called "conveniences" of city life very much.

It is a wonderful life in outstate Missouri for me. It is for Silvermouse. It may be for a couple of others here, too. It may be so for some transplants who had the right mindset BEFORE they moved here. For instance, it isn't a great place for the lady who told me at the library recently that she moved here 20 years ago and has been working to get away ever since; her life has been miserable. It isn't a great place for the lady who moved here with her professor-husband and was bemoaning the fact to a local store keeper (who I was waiting to talk to about buying some advertising with me) that she wished the Rolla City Council would hurry up and do something to get a mall here. I could go on and on about the people unhappy with Rolla, the regional trade center and the biggest place between Springfield and metro St. Louis. Think of the newcomers in the other, smaller places who lie awake at night hating their lives in Missouri.

Yes, I try to keep people from coming here, and maybe I speak a little too candidly in my posts, but I'm just trying to get them to think and be cautious.

On the other hand, you celebrate rural Missouri life, but you do it from a far-away city.

OA celebrates the virtues of rural life, but he scurried out of his small town as quickly as he could and now lives in the fastest growing city in Texas, one of the fastest growing states. I've told him at least twice that I'd like for him to move back to Rolla and start a business to employ some of my neighbors; he said he prefers city life.

Lake Junkie is working to continue to urbanize the lakes area to make it more palatable for metropolitan people.

The three of you pay lip service to rural and small-town living, but is your testimony trustworthy?

I'm here living the small-town life, and enjoying it, but I know it isn't the right kind of life for everyone and I try to tell them that. In fact, I try to WARN them of that before they make big investments of time and money and tie their lives to a region they very likely are going to learn that they don't like.

I think my testimony is far more reliable, and folks from metro areas who want to move here should pay as much attention and trust my judgmentalism as much as they trust your warm fuzzies.

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

Hobbs, I'm trying to HELP these folks. You and OA and Lake Junkie and others have the viewpoint that you're being kind to these outsiders by telling them how wonderful life is in the Ozarks. I think that is unfair to them. They need ALL the information they can amass before selling out and moving to rural Missouri. Far too many of them get here and then realize they've made a mistake. I want to warn them that life here isn't all barbershop quartets and ice cream socials. Country or small-town life is way different from what they've experienced. They're surprised to experience culture shock and then they (and you) are upset when I laugh and say, "What the heck did you expect?"

On the other hand, you celebrate rural Missouri life, but you do it from a far-away city.

OA celebrates the virtues of rural life, but he scurried out of his small town as quickly as he could and now lives in the fastest growing city in Texas, one of the fastest growing states. I've told him at least twice that I'd like for him to move back to Rolla and start a business to employ some of my neighbors; he said he prefers city life.

The three of you pay lip service to rural and small-town living, but is your testimony trustworthy?

I'm here living the small-town life, and enjoying it, but I know it isn't the right kind of life for everyone and I try to tell them that. In fact, I try to WARN them of that before they make big investments of time and money and tie their lives to a region they very likely are going to learn that they don't like.

I think my testimony is far more reliable, and folks from metro areas who want to move here should pay as much attention and trust my judgmentalism as much as they trust your warm fuzzies.

FYI, there is about a 99% chance I'll be moving back to Missouri in mid-August. It will be in St. Louis, but it wouldnt' surprise me if I ended up back in the Ozarks some day, maybe even running my own business. At the moment, they can offer me very little, so I have to head to another city. I came to Texas to further my career and see something outside of the Ozarks, where I had spent the entirety of my life before. If anything, having lived in both rural and urban areas gives me insight into both ways of life that people who have only lived in one or the other don't understand...as well as making me appreciate Missouri even more when I've headed back.

The bottom line is there is absolutely nothing wrong with warning the prospective transplants that they may or won't like everything about living in a rural area. No place is perfect, and rural Missouri is absolutely no exception. I fully agree that they need to be aware that they won't be able to browse a multitude of art galleries, spend $140 on a pair of designer jeans at Macy's, or eat at trendy new cafe every week while living in Rolla or Licking. If you've looked though some of my posts I've warned people about moving to places like Birch Tree, Springfield, and even my own hometown. I fully support people who want to live the peaceful rural lifestyle moving to the area, but only if they really know what they are getting into, which is why I've strongly recommended visiting for a week and talking to the locals.

However, it tends to ruffle my feathers when some are downright judgmental and hostile to the newcomers. You have to remember, they are people too, just like you and me. Most are simply looking for a better way of life...can you blame someone for wanting to be happy? Not every single one of them is going to move to Rolla and complain about the lack of shopping or try to "change" everything...those urbanites or suburbanites who did weren't accurately sure what they were getting into in the first place, and honestly could have used the information posted on this board by you, me, and others. It is perfectly fine to warn someone and provide an accurate assessment of an area, but it is not fine to mock someone who is miserable after making a poor decision, or condescendingly tell people they will hate it here simply because they are from somewhere else. I've known a good many transplants to the Ozarks, and many ended up loving it. That includes several of my professors in Rolla, and other people in knew in my hometown...even some former city-slickers, who realized that they simply did not belong in an urban area, and have been happy for years living in a holler' down in the Ozarks. Heck, I was raised by transplants, who are still living in the Ozarks and still loving it after nearly a quarter of a century!

After living amongst the urbanites/suburbanites for about two years now, I can flat out tell you that the vast, vast majority of them, especially the ones that appreciate the "culture" available in a city, would never even consider moving to a rural area, simply because they like the city life so very much, and many have negative opinions of rural areas (just like many country folk are downright scared of the "big, bad city").

[Nu2pomona]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

I'm here living the small-town life, and enjoying it, but I know it isn't the right kind of life for everyone and I try to tell them that. In fact, I try to WARN them of that before they make big investments of time and money and tie their lives to a region they very likely are going to learn that they don't like.

Just curious. Were you born in the Ozarks? Were your folks born here, too?

I think you're assuming a lot. You're judging all of us "newcomers" by the ones you hear complaining. There are plenty of us who don't complain. Now there are those that would say I'm not originally from the big city. The town I was born in was about 5,000 folks and I've lived most of my life in a city of 50,000.

There's very little I could buy there that I can't find in West Plains, or order on the Internet. I HATE shopping. There are just as many avenues for culture and art in West Plains (at a much lower cost) as there were back there.

Our neighbors across the street are originally from Louisiana. Our neighbors to the south are originally from Colorado. Our best friends are originally from Wisconsin (as are we).

Most of the shops we frequent are kept by folks who have moved here from somewhere else. They know how to work and work hard.

If I have anything to complain about it is the work ethic of the "locals." We've had occasion to engage electricians, plumbers, concrete masons, carpenters, tile installers, landscapers, etc.

They say they'll be here on Monday and show up on Wednesday if at all. One carpenter, in the middle of a job, said he had to run into town to get a piece of molding and would be right back. He even left his tools. He finally returned the following week. I guess the fish were biting.

This fifth time zone (we call it Ozarks Time) is one of the few things that bug me.

The thing that bugs me the most is the trash that fills far too many front yards, porches and road edges. There is absolutely no excuse for it. It doesn't cost money to be clean (water and vinegar work fine), and you don't have to be smart to pick up after yourself.

Boy, I'm probably in trouble now. You'll tell me to go home (but I AM home).

[Curmudgeon]

OzarksBoy, you need to give some of us "city folk" credit for having had at least two brain cells divide and multiply during our lifetimes. Many of us do a lot of research before taking the plunge to move to a new area of the country. Some of us old soldiers even conduct reconnaissance missions before making up our minds. Many of us have had the experience of living in places other than where we were born and that experience gives us the ability to weigh pros and cons and pick-and-choose on a basis that is not totally random.

In my wife's and my case we have collectively lived in a dozen states and four other countries. We will be travelling to MO in a month or two and spending enough time to judge if it's really where we want to settle in retirement. Hopefully, people will accept us as the nice and considerate people we are regardless of our origins. If not we'll simply look elsewhere. We don't wish to force ourselves, our lifestyle or our "demands" on anyone. We simply want to be accorded the chance to fit in and become contributing members of a WELCOMING community.

Neither we nor most like us are carpetbaggers. I have to believe that the vast majority are simply seeking values and traditions that have been lost or overshadowed elsewhere.

[Nu2pomona]

I stopped in at a local gasoline/beer/groceries/lottery ticket shop to purchase diesel fuel for our tractor. I asked at the counter if it was "off road" fuel or did I have to pay tax on it.

A fellow and his male companion were standing nearby and he asked me if I was a "new" around here, I said "yes, I am." He said "Where from?" I told him, Wisconsin. He harrumped a bit and then said, "Well, you're welcome to live here. Just don't try to tell us what to do and you'll get along fine."

About two weeks later I was back in the store and I noticed the same two fellows hovering over a table with a computer processor unit, the lid off, sitting on it. I watched them for a few minutes. It was pretty apparent that they had no idea what they were doing. Now, I've been building and repairing my own computers since the days of Tandy. I saw that they had the cables fastened out of sequence. It would have taken me about 30 seconds to fix it, but I remembered what I had been told. I didn't tell them what to do. Three days later, that darned processor was still sitting on that table.

Sometimes we reap what we sow.

[ozarksboy]

Originally Posted by Nu2pomona

I I watched them for a few minutes. It was pretty apparent that they had no idea what they were doing. Now, I've been building and repairing my own computers since the days of Tandy. I saw that they had the cables fastened out of sequence. It would have taken me about 30 seconds to fix it, but I remembered what I had been told. I didn't tell them what to do. Three days later, that darned processor was still sitting on that table.

That's hilarious. You showed them stupid rednecks for what they are. You have a right to be proud of yourself. You're better than them and you proved it.

Originally Posted by Nu2pomona

J

Our neighbors across the street are originally from Louisiana. Our neighbors to the south are originally from Colorado. Our best friends are originally from Wisconsin (as are we).

Most of the shops we frequent are kept by folks who have moved here from somewhere else. They know how to work and work hard.

If I have anything to complain about it is the work ethic of the "locals." We've had occasion to engage electricians, plumbers, concrete masons, carpenters, tile installers, landscapers, etc.

The thing that bugs me the most is the trash that fills far too many front yards, porches and road edges. There is absolutely no excuse for it. It doesn't cost money to be clean (water and vinegar work fine), and you don't have to be smart to pick up after yourself.

No, I wasn't born in Missouri. I was born in Georgia; I am a native Southerner, a cracker, because my dad was in the Air Force at the time I was born. My mother, a native Missourian, took me home to her hillbilly parents when my dad left for Japan three months after my birth. My dad was born in Wisconsin, your state, but he moved here when he was high school.

Like you, we all have to live amongst these Missourians. And aren't they a sight?

Your post is interesting; no wonder you consider this home. You've got a nearly perfect situation for yourself. You got to buy the cheap Missouri land for your retirement. You're in a littler warmer climate than Wisconsin. You're surrounded by other non-Missourians so you don't have to socialize with Missourians, who you have found to be both stupid and lazy. You don't even have to trade with Missourians because you've found plenty of shopkeepers who are non-Missourians. No wonder it feels like home to you. You are in Missouri, but not of it. You don't have to worry about "being accepted by the locals" as so many newcomers do. You can go for weeks and never have to put up with a Missourian! What a great deal for you. Other newcomers are envious, I'm sure.

All you need for perfection is to get those trashy Missourians to clean up their yards and learn to get to work on time and do a good job. Keep working on them. Maybe you and your non-Missouri neighbors can come up with a plan over coffee while you're commiserating about how Missouri would be perfect if it weren't for the stupid and lazy Missourians!

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

All you need for perfection is to get those trashy Missourians to clean up their yards and learn to get to work on time and do a good job. Keep working on them. Maybe you and your non-Missouri neighbors can come up with a plan over coffee while you're commiserating about how Missouri would be perfect if it weren't for the stupid and lazy Missourians!

I wish you every possible success with your recovery, OB.

[ozarksboy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I wish you every possible success with your recovery, OB.

Well, you said you were ...

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

nice and considerate people we are

... and you are, you really are.