Most progressive areas in Missouri? (Mexico, California: houses, rent, jobs)

[Liev]

Nothing of the sort, ShadowCaver. In fact, my husband, dog and I were poisoned by pesticides they were spraying in the neighborhood, and so did a couple more of our neighbors. We've been so busy just recovering and trying to get them to stop that a lot has fallen by the wayside. This is the kind of thing we're talking about in looking for a place to live. We're trying to start a family and want to just be safe and healthy! Like anyone else, we'd rather not have a baby with two heads. Or cancer.

Anyway, thanks, all, for your very helpful replies. I appreciate your straightforwardness and that it didn't really get abrasive. With politics and issues, as you know, it often can get awfully mean.

God Bless,
Liev

PS Well, this and that was said on various conservative topics, so now I'd like to say my piece. About hunting (let alone eating meat): have y'all tried out laser tag or paint ball or something like that? Match wit against wit? I ask because "When a human being kills an animal for food, he is neglecting his own hunger for justice. Man prays for mercy, but is unwilling to extend it to others. Why then should man expect mercy from God? It is unfair to expect something that you are not willing to give." - Isaac B. Singer.

To the lady who said she didn't get it about veganism and God's circle of life: I can completely see where you're coming from. That's how I used to feel. But then I learned about factory farms and it branded my soul for life. And like a lot of animals out there that are part of the circle of life, we don't need to eat other animals. We don't even have the instinct. Have you ever looked at a horse or a goat or a rabbit and drooled? Jumped on them and dug your claws in for the kill? No? Anyway, even if we were by nature meat-eaters, the holocaust of torture and neglect in the modern factory farm system is probably God's worst sorrow and certainly nothing close to any natural order.

And send me a private message if you want to know what kind of awesome food a vegan like me eats. You'll be shocked in a most pleasant way.

[Sweeper777]

Originally Posted by artichoke63

Some of the responses on this board are pretty scary. You may want to keep to places like CA, MA, OR, NH, or VT... I think I'll do the same.

Artie

You can add WA state to that list. The libs have controlled this state for decades now as evident by the loose morals, high taxes and crowded roads (they don't build enough roads hoping you'll be green and ride mass transit) I'm packin up and headed to MO!

[Liev]

Originally Posted by Sweeper777

You can add WA state to that list. The libs have controlled this state for decades now as evident by the loose morals, high taxes and crowded roads (they don't build enough roads hoping you'll be green and ride mass transit) I'm packin up and headed to MO!

Let's talk about loose morals.

The conservative agenda has sent jobs packing to cheap countries like China, destroying especially small businesses and most people's shots at a decent job to feed their family with.

Conservative politicians, rather than conserving the precious resources of this great land, have squandered them.

Conservative politicians, during their pre-November '06 reign of power, were rife with corruption, with news of top officials being charged and sentenced to jail just about every other day.

Conservative politicians sent our young men and women off to die tragically in a war they started for made-up reasons, costing this nation so much money that even our grandchildren will never be able to pay off the debt. Meanwhile, libraries close, schools shut down, and other services that our hard-earned tax dollars truly deserve are run into the ground. Children in urban schools read books on average about 8-10 years old.

Conservative politicians gave Osama Bin Laden a 2-month head-start after 9/11 and then bombed the innocents of Afghanistan in a public relations attempt. Nearly six years later, the leaders of the greatest nation on Earth have yet to find an old man on a dialysis machine who destroyed the lives of so many families on that awful day. George Bush is quoted as saying that he "really doesn't think about Bin Laden anymore."

George Bush, a conservative, was heavily into cocaine and drinking to the point of several documented cases of drunk driving well into his late 30s until political ambitions inspired a religious "rebirth." This he has waved off as "youthful indiscretion."

Conservative politicians complain about welfare mothers trying to take care of their families but support the "rights" of already overly fat corporations, the biggest welfare mamas of them all, to adhere greedily to the warped and misinterpreted "survival of the fittest" doctrine, pushing out our local mom & pops and neighborhood cultures. (Yet, hypocritically, the same people who thump "survival of the fittest" don't even believe in evolution.)

Conservative politicians seem to think it's okay to poison our planet at the expense of their own children, who grow sicker with asthma, allergies, autism, ADD/ADHD, cancer, etc. every day.

Next to these morals, I think the morals that this writer is referring to (let's see. Homosexuality?) are pretty harmless. Let two people love each other, whomever they are. They're not hurting anybody. You don't have a right to tell them they're sinning based on a book that nobody can prove God wrote any more than they have a right to tell you you're sinning by eating mushrooms because mushrooms are fungus and that is disgusting. They have their preferences. You have yours.

Not only that, but homosexuality is just as common on the right side of the political spectrum as the left. It's just more closeted and causes more harm.

If you're talking about sexuality in general, take a look around you. It happens on all sides of the aisle, left, right, front, back, above and below. Some people are just more hypocritical about it and do it more secretively than others. And again: if no one's having an extra-marital affair, and no one gets hurt, hey, that's a whole lot better than the poisoning of the planet, the neglect of the masses, the shooting deaths of innocent animals, the torture that goes on in factory farms, the sending of our jobs overseas for *even more* profit on the part of already incredibly rich corporations at the expense of you and me...well, you see, I think it's about time we just start thinking in terms of what causes the greatest good and what causes the greatest harm to the largest number of people instead of reading labels starting with an "l" or a "c" or a "d" or an "r." And I take offense at hearing someone casually slinging around the term "loose morals" in relation to liberalism. I'm a liberal after seeing what our conservative politicians have done to us all, and that's you guys included.

Liev

[Clyde Sanders]

Liev, please don't move to Missouri. We don't need any more vegan PETA weirdos who are hyper paranoid of conservatives here. People like you should confine themselves to places like Boston, NYC, LA, San Fran and France.

[Liev]

Originally Posted by Clyde Sanders

Liev, please don't move to Missouri. We don't need any more vegan PETA weirdos who are hyper paranoid of conservatives here. People like you should confine themselves to places like Boston, NYC, LA, San Fran and France.

While I have never found insults or name-calling to be a convincing form of argument (but always seem, rather, to be a desperate substitute for, say, a winning response to one), I have, however, long ago learned all that I needed to know about moving to any part of Missouri. It's clearly not the place for us! Of all the of the pleasantest places for us to live our particular lifestyle, none there would make the list, and we do, like anyone, want the pleasantest of places, the most ideal community for us.

I do welcome any sincere replies/other points of view to my posts. I'm always happy to go a good round of debate!

[Plains10]

Liev, if you are looking for a progressive liberal smaller town I would look at Eureka Springs, Arkansas. This is a small town in the Ozark Mountains in far northern Arkansas that is close to southern Missouri and the Branson/Springfield area.

[Clyde Sanders]

Originally Posted by Liev

While I have never found insults or name-calling to be a convincing form of argument (but always seem, rather, to be a desperate substitute for, say, a winning response to one), I have, however, long ago learned all that I needed to know about moving to any part of Missouri. It's clearly not the place for us! Of all the of the pleasantest places for us to live our particular lifestyle, none there would make the list, and we do, like anyone, want the pleasantest of places, the most ideal community for us.

I do welcome any sincere replies/other points of view to my posts. I'm always happy to go a good round of debate!

Whew, thank goodness you won't be moving here!

Sincerely,

CS

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Liev

Let's talk about loose morals.

The conservative agenda has sent jobs packing to cheap countries like China, destroying especially small businesses and most people's shots at a decent job to feed their family with.

Conservative politicians, rather than conserving the precious resources of this great land, have squandered them.

Conservative politicians, during their pre-November '06 reign of power, were rife with corruption, with news of top officials being charged and sentenced to jail just about every other day.

Conservative politicians sent our young men and women off to die tragically in a war they started for made-up reasons, costing this nation so much money that even our grandchildren will never be able to pay off the debt. Meanwhile, libraries close, schools shut down, and other services that our hard-earned tax dollars truly deserve are run into the ground. Children in urban schools read books on average about 8-10 years old.

Conservative politicians gave Osama Bin Laden a 2-month head-start after 9/11 and then bombed the innocents of Afghanistan in a public relations attempt. Nearly six years later, the leaders of the greatest nation on Earth have yet to find an old man on a dialysis machine who destroyed the lives of so many families on that awful day. George Bush is quoted as saying that he "really doesn't think about Bin Laden anymore."

George Bush, a conservative, was heavily into cocaine and drinking to the point of several documented cases of drunk driving well into his late 30s until political ambitions inspired a religious "rebirth." This he has waved off as "youthful indiscretion."

Conservative politicians complain about welfare mothers trying to take care of their families but support the "rights" of already overly fat corporations, the biggest welfare mamas of them all, to adhere greedily to the warped and misinterpreted "survival of the fittest" doctrine, pushing out our local mom & pops and neighborhood cultures. (Yet, hypocritically, the same people who thump "survival of the fittest" don't even believe in evolution.)

Conservative politicians seem to think it's okay to poison our planet at the expense of their own children, who grow sicker with asthma, allergies, autism, ADD/ADHD, cancer, etc. every day.

Next to these morals, I think the morals that this writer is referring to (let's see. Homosexuality?) are pretty harmless. Let two people love each other, whomever they are. They're not hurting anybody. You don't have a right to tell them they're sinning based on a book that nobody can prove God wrote any more than they have a right to tell you you're sinning by eating mushrooms because mushrooms are fungus and that is disgusting. They have their preferences. You have yours.

Not only that, but homosexuality is just as common on the right side of the political spectrum as the left. It's just more closeted and causes more harm.

If you're talking about sexuality in general, take a look around you. It happens on all sides of the aisle, left, right, front, back, above and below. Some people are just more hypocritical about it and do it more secretively than others. And again: if no one's having an extra-marital affair, and no one gets hurt, hey, that's a whole lot better than the poisoning of the planet, the neglect of the masses, the shooting deaths of innocent animals, the torture that goes on in factory farms, the sending of our jobs overseas for *even more* profit on the part of already incredibly rich corporations at the expense of you and me...well, you see, I think it's about time we just start thinking in terms of what causes the greatest good and what causes the greatest harm to the largest number of people instead of reading labels starting with an "l" or a "c" or a "d" or an "r." And I take offense at hearing someone casually slinging around the term "loose morals" in relation to liberalism. I'm a liberal after seeing what our conservative politicians have done to us all, and that's you guys included.

Liev

Holy Cow, we have just gotten back from looking at NW AR and NE OK and now are thinking about MO instead for retirement. I certainly hope there are not many with your overall views on life living in MO. It would certainly drive us to another state. I bet you are a liberal and also very young. Otherwise you would understand a little better what is really happening. BTW, I wish you could talk to my 21 year old granddaughter. She would differ with you on almost all subjects I am sure. Instead of college making her more liberal, it has sent her to conservative Kingdom.

Nita

ps; now that I read more, I see you are not considering MO, yes, Eureka Springs might be a good place for you. Where ever you decide is good for you, be prepared for explaining your very far out views on life. I am certain you realize most people, even those leaning toward liberalism do not share your thinking.

[Inoxkeeper]

"""PS Well, this and that was said on various conservative topics, so now I'd like to say my piece. About hunting (let alone eating meat): have y'all tried out laser tag or paint ball or something like that? Match wit against wit? I ask because "When a human being kills an animal for food, he is neglecting his own hunger for justice. Man prays for mercy, but is unwilling to extend it to others. Why then should man expect mercy from God? It is unfair to expect something that you are not willing to give." - Isaac B. Singer. """

Have you considered that God put animals here for our use? I harvest at least one deer every year. By doing so I ensure that there is less competition for forage during the cold months. We have eliminated most of the natural predators out there, if not for hunting each winter many animals would die a slow painful death simply because there are too many of them.

Mercy? I have fired 7 shots for the last 6 deer I have taken, I promise you that is more humane and merciful than starving to death. That is also 6 deer that won't run in front of my or your car late at night.

You're asking us to sample a vegan diet, I am game if you will sample some of my venison chili or tacos sometime. A freezer full of Bambi is a wonderful thing and you will find most Missourians agree.

[Liev]

Nita,

Like I said, I have never found insults or name-calling to be a convincing form of argument. They always seem, rather, to be a desperate substitute for a good counter-argument where no good counter-argument can be contrived.

You refer to my "views." They're not views. They're facts. Look them up. Factory farms are cruel places where the drive for profits, workers' pent-up frustrations and speedy slaughter practices lead to incredibly inhumane treatment of animals. A quick search online and into some news archives is all you need to verify that.

The war against Iraq was started for made-up reasons. There was no yellow cake from Niger. Sadam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. Etc. Just look it up. Try any other news source than Fox News. (Take your pick.)

The war against Iraq is costing us so much money, our children will never in their lifetimes be able to recover the losses. Not even our grandchildren will. Again: look it up!!

George Bush's abuse of drugs and alcohol is all in the records.

Our Republican politicians' policies have opened the door to export our jobs overseas. This is common knowledge. It's in the news everywhere. (It's also what everyone's complaining about when they mention call centers in India.) In Western North Carolina in the past 5 years, at least 20,000 jobs have been lost to India and Mexico. This has caused economic and psychological depression in this area.

Particulate matter in the air results in, and aggravates, asthma and allergies in our children. Among other things. You, as an elderly woman, should be concerned, as well, because air pollution affects our elderly, our infants and our children the most severely. I hope you have an air filter in your home and - as they say in the news - stay indoors on the high-smog days.

Mercury has reached dangerous levels in nearly all species of fish. Pregnant women are advised to not eat tuna at all by now. Where does the mercury come from? Industrial processes like coal burning - which carries on to this day even though it is leveling mountains, filling up valleys, burying streams into oblivion, and poisoning us. All to support the powerful coal lobby.

Etc. Your references to my age, etc. are just thinly veiled insults. Your attempts to marginalize my arguments by calling my views "far out" just don't work. You gave no facts to counter mine and to prove mine wrong. I don't think you've convinced anyone except maybe some who similarly don't want anything to do with the facts - otherwise known as reality - for the sake of comfort and convenience.

You want to marginalize me as "far out" and yet you, Nita, in the very act of trying to tell me (or to convince others, or yourself) that my "views," which are all facts, verifiable with any research at all, are "far out," leads me to conclude that your thinking is not based in reality. Your thinking is, rather, based in your own soothing version of "the way things are." I made the decision long ago not to be so naive because I'd rather have the courage to deal with things the way they are.

And I am much older than your 21-year old granddaughter who, by the sound of it, is in some kind of cultish club. The "kingdom" part has a religious tinge to it and yet it's supposed to be political or...? Oh, well. There are no arguments here, so consider it a rhetorical question. I'm done.

Liev