Most progressive areas in Missouri?

[organica]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Have you heard that Lobsters scream when you put them live into boiling water? Not true!!!!!

nita

They don't have vocal chords, silly! They couldn't scream if they wanted too. And I'm sure they would want to if they could. I would scream if I were being lowered into boiling water. So I guess I won't be lowering any animal into boiling water ever again because I firmly believe in the Golden Rule. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

[Liev]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Liev,

You watched those pigs being thrown against the concrete? Would you like to share with us where you saw this?

I just did! But you want to believe what you want to believe. Watch the videos. Look at the photographs. Do some Google or Yahoo searches on animal rights and factory farms. Then, take notice of the people who speak out on factory farm animal abuse and on behalf of animals. MDs, world-renowned authors who've never in their decades of authorship managed to get denounced. T. Colin Campbell, one of the world's top researcher in nutrition science,k author of The China Study. Dean Ornish, MD. John Robbins of the Baskin Robbins family. Einstein. (Now THAT guy was far out!)

As for the Iraq war, I don't think this is a place to discuss wars

It's not the place to discuss my liberal paranoia or lack thereof, or my being far out even for the tastes of liberals or not. What can I say? The Pandora's box was opened!

so I will say only one thing: I personally believe the WOMD existed but too much time was given so distroying or moving them became easy.

Our personal beliefs are not cause enough to cost American lives in a war we can't seem to get out of. Personal beliefs are not granted admission to the court of law for far, far lesser things. A lawsuit, a car robbery. So how can we justify going to war over outdated students' dissertations and hearsay that never got corroborated, or paranoid-sounding beliefs that another country possesses weapons that they might someday use? God forbid anyone inspects *us*! And we've used such weapons in the past! Thank God no one uses our logic on us, or we'd find ourselves shot at check-points manned by foreign soldiers, bombed at the mall, our cities demolished, curfews enforced....

If you think my views about the war are far out, ask the majority of the American public, and they'll all be way out there right with me.

I do beleive not enough thought was given to getting out in a timely manner.

If what you're saying is that you do believe that we're not out of Iraq and should be, then I guess you can't think I'm so far out, after all.

Views versus facts, well we could all discuss this for ever, you are still giving your views perhaps backed by facts you choose to beleive. That is your right as an American, but no one really knows the true facts unless we are there to witness them.

You are correct. I choose to believe facts because they're facts. Otherwise I'd believe something else. Based on what you say, then, you can't support going to war with a country by believing that WMD were moved around like chess pieces on a board - great, big, heavy, spied-upon, satellite-inspected chess pieces - because you weren't there to witness this sleight of thousands of well-coordinated, secretive massive, multiple-ton-weapon-wielding hands in desert terrain with few trees or other big things around for cover.

Anyway, all you have to do is go check out a factory farm to see the reality. Go visit one - if they'll let you in. Or drive behind one of those trucks transporting animals to the slaughterhouse. Around here, little chicken cages frequently fall off of the trucks, and vehicles behind them hit the cages - and the animals in them. And they are not comfortably climate-controlled trucks, either. That's how the cages fall off the trucks. They're not inside of anything.

George Bush's use of drugs and alcohol: alcohol, yes, drugs have not been documented and even if they are true and they may be, that was then, not now. When you were in college, if you were, did you do anything you wish you hadn't have done.

Right. So my disapproval of our current president of the United States having a history of abusing drugs and alcohol, you would say, is not far out at all. We would all prefer an A+ graduate of Yale or Harvard or MIT, upstanding citizen - not someone boozing and drugging well into his adult years. You feel it is regrettable and something he ought not to have done. However, we should also note that he was well out of college at the time of his eventual reform, at the not-so-tender age of, oh, I think it was 37?

I have two daughters and a son, all are outstanding citizens, involved in their comminity, doing volunteer work, raising great kids (2 are, one has chosen not to have children) and yet they are the first to admit their college days are best left behind. Did we use drugs in college? Nope, but did we do things I would like to push out of my mind? Sure we did.

Wow. You're really far out. I think even most liberals would say you're a little too out there on the fringe for them!

Jobs being sent overseas? I am not certain any of us are excited about this, anymore than we like to push 1 for English or 2 for whatever, but are you sure the jobs that have gone overseas started with Bush? You are so great at quoted facts, check this one out!!!!

Go back and look, and you'll see that I didn't say that the outsourcing of jobs overseas started with Bush. In fact, what I said was that it was the conservative agenda that has allowed this. The outsourcing of jobs has reached its heyday over the last 5 years or so, those being the peak of Republican power. The Republicans could have done something to stop it. But they didn't do a thing. Meanwhile, the free trade agreements that hit the fever pitch that enabled job outsourcing to reach these all-time highs are a favorite item on the Republican/conservative to-do list. Liberals are, by contrast, interested in *fair* trade (a term of technical distinction). These are facts.

The war costing us, you better beleive it, just like all wars. It isn't cheap nor nice. war is ugly. We all wish war was something that never had to happen. BTW, I am not a complete Bush supporter.

I'm starting to really like you, you fringe hippie lunatic, you!! I'm sorry. I'm teasing, yet the point is, you say I'm way out there, even for a liberal, yet you (and millions and millions of people) agree with what I've written here. I think that, debating aside, we can both agree that there's a lot that goes on that we just can't be there to witness and know, for sure, ourselves, and there's a lot that we really wish weren't the case. But that doesn't mean it isn't the case, and I absolutely do hope that you will look up some of the things I mentioned through some varied sources, and see what you think for yourself. There's a very conservative police officer who posted here saying he's vegan, health-conscious, and environmental but he made it clear that he's not liberal. You don't have to dismiss things only for the reason that they don't seem to fit within the framework that you've chosen because they're not "endorsed" by the leadership of your political party or the family members that share certain beliefs.

He was the best we had, but no, I will never say I think he is a great Pres. the last one of those was RR.

It may interest you to know, as conservative as my granddaughter is, she is not part of any religion. She is one of the few in our family that believes in a spiritual being, but doesn't practice any religion. Cultish club, what the heck is that all about?

Conservative Kingdom - I worry about kids in college getting sucked into conformist things, and it sounds like one of them.

Yes, you are far out, this does not mean you do not have a right to express your views, but because they are not with the main stream you should be prepared for a certain amount of feedback and I don't mean positive.


See above

Mercury and fish, yes, pregant women are being warned, but our older granddaughter just had her first child; her OB/GYN who came highly recommended said Tuna was ok as long as she didn't eat it more than a couple times a week because of mercury. Maybe you have other facts that say something different. You seem to think you have facts for everything.

So, my view that the conservative politicians' neglect for an increasingly poisoned planet is far out to you, yet you agree that your granddaughter should only eat tuna a couple of times a week when she is pregnant because even her OB/GYN says it is so contaminated that we have to watch our tuna intake. (This OB/GYN's information is unfortunately a bit outdated. The mercury problem has developed so quickly that most fish, tuna included, are strongly discouraged for consumption in any amounts by women of childbearing age, children, and of course pregnant women. My mother, RN, nutritionist for 3 decades, and WIC consultant, keeps me up on these things.)

Again, all I have to say is: I am glad you are not moving to Mo where they have a conservative, republican governor.

I know! Me, too!

Maybe you can find someplace with clean air where Asthma will not be an issue. If so let my son know. He has suffered for years and we raised him in rather clean air in Northern California.

Did you know that in most places, indoor air is more polluted than outdoor air? This is due mostly to carpet and furniture glues, sealants, etc., various plastic and otherwise toxic products brought into the home, like pesticides, as well as homebuilding materials, and household cleaners - which OSHA in many cases won't even allow for workplace use because they don't meet OSHA safety standards for employees in the workplace. Even just sitting in the cabinets under the sinks, chemicals leak out of the bottles and into the air. And so our health suffers. Most chemical products, by the way, have never been tested for safety. Only about 1% of the chemicals out there have been tested for safety. You can learn more at websites like The Environmental Working Group's (www.ewg.org), the PIRG websites, etc.

As for me and my old age or elderly as you put it, I am not having any breathing problems from bad air right now, lets hope this continues.

I will second that.

What I have gotten from my aging is a little better understanding of how others think: something you will learn someday I hope. Nita

I certainly hope to continue learning with every year, and to retain flexibility in my thinking.

Take care.
Liev