Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Springfield, Joplin: schools, shops, good)

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

And at one time, all the citizens of STL spoke French and were Catholic.
Just think, if things had been just a little different, we Missourians would be singing La Marseillaise.

In some areas St. Louis feels like New Orleans.

Except even some places in New Orleans are even dirtier and more dangerous than Stl. It's a total war zone in many places down there.

Another deciding factor I think in Missouri present day leaning Midwest more is the early 1900s. In the early 1900s I think it was 1908 the Missouri lawmakers very nearly passed a voting literacy and poll tax that was pushed by rural Missouri Democrat lawmakers, and very narrowly was defeated by a few Stl Republicans. If that were to pass, Missouri at least in the history books would be mentioned more during the civil rights era and voting rights act as it would have been a battle ground state to get blacks to vote. That law would also mean that Democrats would have been totally in control of the state, and even fewer Republicans would have been elected.

Back then blacks voted Republican as they were more liberal. It wasn't until the 1940s blacks started voted Democrat.

There are a lot of good books on the history of Missouri, and culture. Many of them you can read parts or most of the book for free on Google Books.

Especially in the early 1900s a lot strict pro segregation laws were proposed, nearly passed in Missouri such as the poll tax, only to been narrowly defeated by St. Louis. There was also a strict public transit segregation law that was almost passed as well, but blacks were able to lobby enough St. Louis city Republicans to vote against it, and stl democrats to not vote. There was actually a little story about it on PBS one time about how the stl blacks lobbied enough republican and city lawmakers to defeat it.

Missouri had similar segregation laws to that of KY, WV, MD all border states. If the Democrats had their way however Missouri would have been a much more of a battle ground during the civil rights area like other more deep south states if stricter laws were to pass.

My mom tells me when she was a kid how blacks couldn't eat at none of the lunch counters in the deptartment stores in St. Louis and such.

Sometimes I do wonder if minimal competency should be required to vote. Some people don't even know who their vice president is or who the last president was. Watch Jay leno's Jaywalking sometime. There seriously are people that are dumb as a box of rocks.

I go to college, and I do see people this stupid that shouldn't be making big decisions like voting.

Heck a certain someone in the White House thought there were 57 states.

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

And at one time, all the citizens of STL spoke French and were Catholic.
Just think, if things had been just a little different, we Missourians would be singing La Marseillaise.

hahahah brilliant! I'd be kicked out of the state though lol

[onegoalstl]

What would be interesting if they made a north missouri and a south missouri. Split it up at the MO river. The northern half would be midwestern, and the southern half would be considered Southern. Wasn't that proposed at one time to split MO?

St. Louis would be like Florida's version of Miami. Nothing southern about it.

LIke other posters have said when you cross the MO river it begins transition towards southern until you get into the last 25% of the state then you're in Dixie.

It's odd though most of the northern half of Missouri is still protestant so it has people of southern decent, yet what happend to their accent and culture? One of my teachers if from Iowa, and he told us he could notice a night and day difference when he crosses over into Missouri from Iowa just by the way people are.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

What would be interesting if they made a north missouri and a south missouri. Split it up at the MO river. The northern half would be midwestern, and the southern half would be considered Southern. Wasn't that proposed at one time to split MO?

St. Louis would be like Florida's version of Miami. Nothing southern about it.

LIke other posters have said when you cross the MO river it begins transition towards southern until you get into the last 25% of the state then you're in Dixie.

It's odd though most of the northern half of Missouri is still protestant so it has people of southern decent, yet what happend to their accent and culture? One of my teachers if from Iowa, and he told us he could notice a night and day difference when he crosses over into Missouri from Iowa just by the way people are.

1) Thats just a ridiculous idea.

2) Not everyone in the US that is a Baptist is a southerner.

Following that line of reason, why dont we just split southern FL off from the rest of the state and call in NY/NJ South?

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

What would be interesting if they made a north missouri and a south missouri. Split it up at the MO river. The northern half would be midwestern, and the southern half would be considered Southern. Wasn't that proposed at one time to split MO?

St. Louis would be like Florida's version of Miami. Nothing southern about it.

LIke other posters have said when you cross the MO river it begins transition towards southern until you get into the last 25% of the state then you're in Dixie.

It's odd though most of the northern half of Missouri is still protestant so it has people of southern decent, yet what happend to their accent and culture? One of my teachers if from Iowa, and he told us he could notice a night and day difference when he crosses over into Missouri from Iowa just by the way people are.

South of the Missouri River would still probably be a midwestern state.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

1) Thats just a ridiculous idea.

2) Not everyone in the US that is a Baptist is a southerner.

Following that line of reason, why dont we just split southern FL off from the rest of the state and call in NY/NJ South?

Why is that a dumb idea? I can see how some people want it because this state is so diverse because you have people from the ozarks, SE MO that lean south in thinking, and then you have NE MO that is midwestern.

So how would they be methodist, and southern baptist if they're not southern? When one gets right over the Iowa border it's not protestant. same with Nebraska. The protestants in MO are mostly ancestors from TN, NC, KY, VA. Now SE MO those are Delta southerners.

If not NY/NJ south, can we call is Mexico East, or haiti west? Seriously it seems like no one in FL speaks English. At least when I left there 9 years ago.

Nice map. Besides East central area of MO near the rivers thats Catholic, most areas are either Methodist, or Baptist. Just shows most in MO whos ancestors settled in MO decided to stay in MO and not move into Iowa, Kansas. that would explain the religion divide over just a few miles.

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Why is that a dumb idea? I can see how some people want it because this state is so diverse because you have people from the ozarks, SE MO that lean south in thinking, and then you have NE MO that is midwestern.

So how would they be methodist, and southern baptist if they're not southern? When one gets right over the Iowa border it's not protestant. same with Nebraska. The protestants in MO are mostly ancestors from TN, NC, KY, VA. Now SE MO those are Delta southerners.

If not NY/NJ south, can we call is Mexico East, or haiti west? Seriously it seems like no one in FL speaks English. At least when I left there 9 years ago.

Nice map. Besides East central area of MO near the rivers thats Catholic, most areas are either Methodist, or Baptist. Just shows most in MO whos ancestors settled in MO decided to stay in MO and not move into Iowa, Kansas. that would explain the religion divide over just a few miles.

Missouri is a melting pot of different denominations of Christianity & Culture in general. There are plenty of Methodists & Baptists that don't identify as southern (especially general baptists). In fact the only church that says "Southern Baptist" in it's name that I can think of in MO is located in Potosi, which is not southern at all. Just because someone's ancestry is a certain type doesn't make them that type, what matters is the preservation of old cultural customs, something that most of Missouri's population that has southern roots cannot claim.

It's a dumb idea if you want your state to retain any influence in this country, and a united Missouri is much stronger economically. Should KC & STL leave the state due to economic differences? We'd probably be poorer than Mississippi if that happened.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

Missouri is a melting pot of different denominations of Christianity & Culture in general. There are plenty of Methodists & Baptists that don't identify as southern (especially general baptists). In fact the only church that says "Southern Baptist" in it's name that I can think of in MO is located in Potosi, which is not southern at all. Just because someone's ancestry is a certain type doesn't make them that type, what matters is the preservation of old cultural customs, something that most of Missouri's population that has southern roots cannot claim.

It's a dumb idea if you want your state to retain any influence in this country, and a united Missouri is much stronger economically. Should KC & STL leave the state due to economic differences? We'd probably be poorer than Mississippi if that happened.

Yes, economics is the answer, as well as the obvious fact that not many people would vote for something like that.
The diversity of the people of MO is one of its biggest strengths.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

Missouri is a melting pot of different denominations of Christianity & Culture in general. There are plenty of Methodists & Baptists that don't identify as southern (especially general baptists). In fact the only church that says "Southern Baptist" in it's name that I can think of in MO is located in Potosi, which is not southern at all. Just because someone's ancestry is a certain type doesn't make them that type, what matters is the preservation of old cultural customs, something that most of Missouri's population that has southern roots cannot claim.

It's a dumb idea if you want your state to retain any influence in this country, and a united Missouri is much stronger economically. Should KC & STL leave the state due to economic differences? We'd probably be poorer than Mississippi if that happened.

I can see labling Potosi upland southish like West Virginia, Rolla for example. I don't see them as completly Midwestern like Northern MO, Iowa, IL, WI.

Like I said excluding Ste Gen, Perry Co, south of I44 for example just doesn't have a 100 percent midwest feel.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

I can see labling Potosi upland southish like West Virginia, Rolla for example. I don't see them as completly Midwestern like Northern MO, Iowa, IL, WI.

Like I said excluding Ste Gen, Perry Co, south of I44 for example just doesn't have a 100 percent midwest feel.

Gunner brought up a very valid point, as most of original settlers and workers of Potosi were French-Canadian and French, they came from Ste Gen and Kaskaskia to work the mines, one can still finad a lot of people there with French surnames, and the corresponding customs.
Potosi was founded in 1799 by Moses Austin, the father of Stephen Austin of Texas fame.
Moses was one of the earliest Anglo settlers in Ste Gen, and was well respected there, which is obvious by all the French that followed him from Ste Gen.