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Old 08-04-2011, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,834,968 times
Reputation: 15560

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Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl View Post
I dunno ROlla just feels strange and not fully midwestern. Thats why I used upland like southern Indiana and northern parts of northern KY and maybe parts of WV.
And you have spent years living in the areas that you mentioned, so you feel as though you are qualified to compare them?
I lived for 5 years in Northern KY, and I wouldnt even begin to compare it to say, Poplar Bluff.....PB is much, much more southern.

 
Old 08-04-2011, 02:05 AM
 
543 posts, read 849,141 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
And you have spent years living in the areas that you mentioned, so you feel as though you are qualified to compare them?
I lived for 5 years in Northern KY, and I wouldnt even begin to compare it to say, Poplar Bluff.....PB is much, much more southern.
What part of northern KY. Yea I would say Poplar Bluff is much more southern than northern KY which has more midwestern flavor. PB is the south. I work with a guy from there and you can tell teh minute he speaks he's from the south.

Now if this were lets say 1900 even. I would say there could be a even more argument in more parts of Missouri being southern or not.

At the state level in the early 1900s Missouri outside St. Louis was largely southern thinking politics wise. Southern Democrats aka as the "Confederate Faction" had a lot of say in Jefferson City. They nearly got a poll tax and voting literacy tax passed as well as a box car segregation bill nearly passed as well. Both were narrowly defeated because of St. Louis politicians and Stl democrats not voting on the bills.

Another interesting aspect back then when the politicians were coming up for state flag designs in the early 1900s they almost went with putting the Roman cross from the Missouri Confederate Battle flag in the state flag as well, but that was later scrapped and they went with Marie Elizabeth Watkins Oliver design. It's actually mentioned in a couple books I've seen on Google books about the history of Missouri. PBS also did a story on MO segregation once and mentioned the early 1900s was the height when segregation stuff was being passed and attempted to pass in MO.

I just have to wonder if that poll tax bill passed in the early 1900s, Missouri probably would have been a more known battle ground state during the civil rights movement. As Democrats controlled state politics most of the time, but like Kentucky, Republicans were able to win the governers mansion and seats sometimes. The Republicans were the more liberal party back then and St. Louis always usually voted Republican or New Deal Democrats.

With the voting literacy and poll tax large number of KC and St. Louis people wouldn't been able to vote, and the southern democrat wing of Jefferson City would control politics, and at the Federal level would have allowed segregationist Democrats to have a decent shot at winning Missouri.

However some of Missouri's congressmen were segregationist and voted against the civil rights act. Senator Symington who always boasted about Missouri southern roots on the campaign trail sold out to St. Louis liberals, Long was a bit more conservative and also voted for the act still. I think 5 congressmen from Missouri voted against the act. The urban St. Louis ones voted for it, while the rural ones voted against the civil rights act more.

So if you look our states history a lot of things could be different today if some things happend differently in the last 100 or so years. I think we would be compared to Kentucky more today if Missouri didnt become so midwesternized by inudustry. St. Louis is a big factor in why Missouri is considered mostly midwestern today. Politics wise Missouri was similar to Kentucky in a lot of ways during the civil rights movement. Both classic border states. whos politicians were mixed on it. However Missouri had more of a dixiecrat element to it than Kentucky did due to Southeast Missouri cotton county. Warren Hearnes was a segregationist from the bootheel up until he aspired to become governer and the St. Louis liberals told him he would have to change his views in order to become governer.

Maryland has been bastarized by the northeast. Except for small parts of the Eastern Shore there is not a lot southern about it. Even in 1861 it wasn't as southern as Missouri and I know their politicians were jailed because of worry of secession, most historians agree they didn't have nearly enough votes to seceede anyways, unlike Missouri whos most of their lawmakers were pro confederate, but were ran out of Jeff City before they were able to make a official ordinance on their own. If General Lyon was stopped sooner, I think MO would still be called a southern state today as we would have been officially seceeded most likely. Claibs even told Jefferson Davis after camp jackson that to give MO 30 days to seceeded, but that never happend as Lyon's route was on. MO was close to seceeding. Even my one history book said out of all the border states, MO was the closet to leaving the union. Although I disagree because IMO Gov Jackson was never legally impeached same with the lawmakers so I consider the nesho convention valid.
 
Old 08-04-2011, 02:37 AM
 
Location: Table Rock Lake - MO/AR Ozarks
223 posts, read 332,622 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
The Ozarks are a region separate from the Midwest or South, but with influences from both. Rolla, being on I-44, doesn't feel very southern to me at all.
Hear, Hear!
 
Old 08-04-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 19,947,480 times
Reputation: 11620
Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl View Post
..........


They nearly got a poll tax and voting literacy tax passed as well as a box car segregation bill nearly passed as well. Both were narrowly defeated because of St. Louis politicians and Stl democrats not voting on the bills.


.................

PBS also did a story on MO segregation once and mentioned the early 1900s was the height when segregation stuff was being passed and attempted to pass in MO.

I just have to wonder if that poll tax bill passed in the early 1900s, Missouri probably would have been a more known battle ground state during the civil rights movement. As Democrats controlled state politics most of the time, but like Kentucky, Republicans were able to win the governers mansion and seats sometimes. The Republicans were the more liberal party back then and St. Louis always usually voted Republican or New Deal Democrats.

With the voting literacy and poll tax large number of KC and St. Louis people wouldn't been able to vote, and the southern democrat wing of Jefferson City would control politics, and at the Federal level would have allowed segregationist Democrats to have a decent shot at winning Missouri.

However some of Missouri's congressmen were segregationist and voted against the civil rights act. Senator Symington who always boasted about Missouri southern roots on the campaign trail sold out to St. Louis liberals, Long was a bit more conservative and also voted for the act still. I think 5 congressmen from Missouri voted against the act. The urban St. Louis ones voted for it, while the rural ones voted against the civil rights act more.

So if you look our states history a lot of things could be different today if some things happend differently in the last 100 or so years. I think we would be compared to Kentucky more today if Missouri didnt become so midwesternized by inudustry. St. Louis is a big factor in why Missouri is considered mostly midwestern today. Politics wise Missouri was similar to Kentucky in a lot of ways during the civil rights movement. Both classic border states. whos politicians were mixed on it. However Missouri had more of a dixiecrat element to it than Kentucky did due to Southeast Missouri cotton county. Warren Hearnes was a segregationist from the bootheel up until he aspired to become governer and the St. Louis liberals told him he would have to change his views in order to become governer.

Maryland has been bastarized by the northeast. Except for small parts of the Eastern Shore there is not a lot southern about it. Even in 1861 it wasn't as southern as Missouri and I know their politicians were jailed because of worry of secession, most historians agree they didn't have nearly enough votes to seceede anyways, unlike Missouri whos most of their lawmakers were pro confederate, but were ran out of Jeff City before they were able to make a official ordinance on their own. If General Lyon was stopped sooner, I think MO would still be called a southern state today as we would have been officially seceeded most likely. Claibs even told Jefferson Davis after camp jackson that to give MO 30 days to seceeded, but that never happend as Lyon's route was on. MO was close to seceeding. Even my one history book said out of all the border states, MO was the closet to leaving the union. Although I disagree because IMO Gov Jackson was never legally impeached same with the lawmakers so I consider the nesho convention valid.
you know... nearly this entire post glorifies what **I** consider to be an ugly and shameful period of history..... jim crow laws, poll taxes, voting literacy requirrements, stars and bars....every single one of them designed to keep one race inequal to another..... not a single thing to be proud of or romanticize, imo ....

So if you look our states history a lot of things could be different today if some things happend differently in the last 100 or so years.

This statement is applicable to ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in the world today...... NOT just how southern or racist or seccessionist Missouri is or is not.....
 
Old 08-04-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: MO
2,122 posts, read 3,658,006 times
Reputation: 1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl View Post
I dunno ROlla just feels strange and not fully midwestern. Thats why I used upland like southern Indiana and northern parts of northern KY and maybe parts of WV.
Rolla does feel different and isn't fully midwestern. It's also (and primarily) Ozarkian.
 
Old 08-04-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Tippecanoe County, Indiana
26,375 posts, read 46,238,636 times
Reputation: 19455
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
Rolla does feel different and isn't fully midwestern. It's also (and primarily) Ozarkian.
It has a stronger hills culture element, just like southern Indiana.
 
Old 08-07-2011, 03:16 AM
 
543 posts, read 849,141 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
It has a stronger hills culture element, just like southern Indiana.
I cant see how you can compare the Ozarks to southern Indiana.
 
Old 08-07-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Tippecanoe County, Indiana
26,375 posts, read 46,238,636 times
Reputation: 19455
Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl View Post
I cant see how you can compare the Ozarks to southern Indiana.
Hmm, have you ever been to southern Indiana?
 
Old 08-08-2011, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,834,968 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Hmm, have you ever been to southern Indiana?
I have, and I dont get it, either.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 02:59 PM
 
543 posts, read 849,141 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
I have, and I dont get it, either.
Driven near there.

Now the Ozarks starting just north of US 60 on down to Arkansas is a lot more southern than southern Indiana lol. US60 is in the south.

The bootheel, and I mean the 3 southernmost Bootheel counties of New Madrid, Pemiscott, and Dunklin county is more southern than probably any part of KY. That is delta, deep southish like MS.
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