Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Kansas City, St. Louis: gated, home, move)

[Jay F]

I am glad this topic is here because this subject has been on my mind. I just came back home to the West coast after spending the past two weeks in SW Missouri. I spent several days each in Springfield, Branson, and Joplin. From my outside perspective I strongly got the impression I was in the South not the Midwest. The accents, mannerism, hospitality, not to mention the sweet tea all seemed very Southern to me.

This was quite a surprise to me because I always thought of Missouri as a Midwestern state. I had previously visited St Louis and it's not Southern at all, in fact it very much reminded me of the city I was born in...Milwaukee WI, except it's on a river instead of a lake and the winters are milder. I have also visited Kansas City and it seemed solidly Midwestern to me.

I'll take eveyone's word that SE MO is even more Southern than the SW portion of the state. But after this visit I am convinced that all of Southern Missouri is culturally more Southern than Midwestern.

[mrsgenealogy]

Originally Posted by Jay F

I am glad this topic is here because this subject has been on my mind. I just came back home to the West coast after spending the past two weeks in SW Missouri. I spent several days each in Springfield, Branson, and Joplin. From my outside perspective I strongly got the impression I was in the South not the Midwest. The accents, mannerism, hospitality, not to mention the sweet tea all seemed very Southern to me.

This was quite a surprise to me because I always thought of Missouri as a Midwestern state. I had previously visited St Louis and it's not Southern at all, in fact it very much reminded me of the city I was born in...Milwaukee WI, except it's on a river instead of a lake and the winters are milder. I have also visited Kansas City and it seemed solidly Midwestern to me.

I'll take eveyone's word that SE MO is even more Southern than the SW portion of the state. But after this visit I am convinced that all of Southern Missouri is culturally more Southern than Midwestern.

Thanks for sharing, Jay. As I said in an earlier post, you can't argue with someone's experiences and your experiences even went against your previously held beliefs so that makes your "testimony" to be even stronger.

I know there will be those who disagree and if you've read this thread, you know it, too. I am one who agrees about it feeling southern although I feel that the majority of people here don't have accents. Another difference is that as a native Californian who had MO relatives that we visited, I always thought of MO as a southern state and was surprised when we moved here to learn it was considered midwestern.

This has been an interesting topic that ajf started. Lots of discussion! Since there really isn't a definitive answer, I imagine it will go on for a loooong time. Thanks for "weighing in on it", Jay! Your experience is important and valid, too!

MrsG

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by mrsgenealogy

Thanks for sharing, Jay. As I said in an earlier post, you can't argue with someone's experiences and your experiences even went against your previously held beliefs so that makes your "testimony" to be even stronger.

I know there will be those who disagree and if you've read this thread, you know it, too. I am one who agrees about it feeling southern although I feel that the majority of people here don't have accents. Another difference is that as a native Californian who had MO relatives that we visited, I always thought of MO as a southern state and was surprised when we moved here to learn it was considered midwestern.

This has been an interesting topic that ajf started. Lots of discussion! Since there really isn't a definitive answer, I imagine it will go on for a loooong time. Thanks for "weighing in on it", Jay! Your experience is important and valid, too!

MrsG

From my perspective, Missouri does not really feel Southern except in its Southern parts. For the state as a whole feeling Southern, I'd beg to differ.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Jay F

I am glad this topic is here because this subject has been on my mind. I just came back home to the West coast after spending the past two weeks in SW Missouri. I spent several days each in Springfield, Branson, and Joplin. From my outside perspective I strongly got the impression I was in the South not the Midwest. The accents, mannerism, hospitality, not to mention the sweet tea all seemed very Southern to me.

This was quite a surprise to me because I always thought of Missouri as a Midwestern state. I had previously visited St Louis and it's not Southern at all, in fact it very much reminded me of the city I was born in...Milwaukee WI, except it's on a river instead of a lake and the winters are milder. I have also visited Kansas City and it seemed solidly Midwestern to me.

I'll take eveyone's word that SE MO is even more Southern than the SW portion of the state. But after this visit I am convinced that all of Southern Missouri is culturally more Southern than Midwestern.

Wow...if you heard many Southern accents in SW Missouri, I'm surprised...they didn't sound Southern to me at all...not nearly the same Southern slur found in KY, AR, or TN. In addition, the architecture looks quite Midwestern in those areas and the landscape retains Midwestern characteristics, however they are not part of the Midwest...my point is that they contain influences from several different regions, not exclusively the South. If you are talking about the entire Southern half of the state, there is a large transition area between Midwestern and Southern. You are forgetting that Joplin and Springfield are located near the bottom of the state...to conclude that areas up to 100 miles north of there are more Southern than Midwestern is crazy IMO. SW Missouri does have Southern culture but the accents I heard in SW Missouri were varied, and as natives of SW Missouri my dad's side of the family does not consider themselves true Southerners, nor do they sound like them. SW Missouri does not even really look like the South to me as far as landscape goes. I really don't see how it should be considered truly Southern, even if it may have many Southern influences. SE Missouri is the only area of the state that is truly Southern. The Southern half of Missouri may not be immune to Southern culture, but I'd never include it in Dixie unless we're talking the areas, as Plains10 and DefaultAlias have said repeatedly, below U.S. 60 and in the S.E. parts of MO around Sikeston and Cape Girardeau, Poplar Bluff, etc. If you were to compare Southern culture in Joplin and Springfield to Louisville, Kentucky or Little Rock, Louisville and Little Rock would be far more Southern. I've been to both places and Joplin and Springfield are noticeably different from any other Southern cities/towns I've been to although they do again have strong Southern culture. Once you are around Sikeston, Cape Girardeau, or the bootheel, THEN you're in the South. For SW Missouri, I'd say you need to head below Joplin and Springfield before you are truly in the South. Remember that these two cities are also influenced by northeast Oklahoma, Southeastern Kansas, and Northwestern Arkansas, and this region should be according to dialect maps I've seen devoid of Southern speech patterns. My point...YES, SW Missouri does have a Southern culture, but it is also influenced by other regions besides the South. SE Missouri has absolutely nothing in common with the Midwest and everything in common with the South. That's the standard for me. I would probably agree in any case that Joplin and Springfield are more Southern than Midwestern. It really surprises that so many people still think of Missouri as a Southern state based on the fact it allowed slavery. It's economy was never dependent on it, it overwhelmingly supported the Union during the Civil War. it behaved like a Midwestern state after the Civil War, it gained in black population during the Great Migration, it is part of the cornbelt, and has pretty much the same agriculture as Iowa except for the extreme Southern portions where cotton grows. And looking at a map, most of it touches the Great Plains and the Midwest and is most of it is north of the Mason-Dixon. So I really don't see how one comes to the conclusion that the Southern argument applies to the ENTIRE state. If that were the case, Iowa, Illinois, and Kansas would all have strong Southern influences. I guess it's all a matter of a opinion. I'm one person, but I've been through all of Missouri and most of it just does not remind me of any southern state I've been to. Maybe Southern Missouri sort of reminds me of West Virginia, I dunno...it's becoming more clear to me now that as to the whole state there's not really a consensus. I can see why Southern Missouri would be questioned as being Midwestern, but not the Northern half of Missouri or St. Louis and KC. There is nothing that I find in these parts to suggest they are anything but Midwestern. They are nothing like Joplin, Springfield, Cape Girardeau, or Sikeston AT ALL.

[mrsgenealogy]

Originally Posted by ajf131

From my perspective, Missouri does not really feel Southern except in its Southern parts. For the state as a whole feeling Southern, I'd beg to differ.

You got it, ajf! Maybe that's why we love the southern part so much!

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by mrsgenealogy

You got it, ajf! Maybe that's why we love the southern part so much!

MrsG, I actually reconsidered. I guess while my father and his family may not consider themselves Southerners, I guess that Joplin and Springfield definitely seem a bit laid back like Southern towns are. They certainly have the culture to be deemed Southern. But I guess the reason I have a difficult time calling them Southern is because of where they are located. They are located very close to Oklahoma and Kansas so they draw influence from those two states in addition to the Northwest corner of Arkansas, which to me at least seems very different from the rest of Arkansas (we're talking like maybe just a tiny piece of Arkansas). But I would probably agree that they are more Southern than Midwestern. Missouri I guess being at the geographic center of the United States has different feels to it depending where you are on the state. As far as demographics are concerned, Southern Baptists do make up a significant amount of religion in Missouri along with Catholics, but Southern Baptists generally reside in the Southern parts of Missouri. What I will agree to is that Missouri does have more of a Dixie element to it than Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. Again, I love the South...I just don't think that most of Missouri belongs in it. I just sorta figured that since most of Missouri's eastern border is Illinois, most of it's western border is 50% Kansas, 25%Nebraska, 25% Oklahoma, like 85-90% Illinois, and only a minute portion is KY and TN, it's Northern border is Iowa, and it's Southern border is Arkansas, that it would generally just make common sense to include it in either the Midwest or the Great Plains before the South. I think I'm gonna put this one to bed though. I've given my opinion...I've given facts supporting my case...I'll let others give their thoughts now. Peace. And whatever Missouri is, I will always be proud to be born and raised in the Show-Me-State.

[mrsgenealogy]

You said, "And whatever Missouri is, I will always be proud to be born and raised in the Show-Me-State."

Right on! It's a good thing to be proud of and/or grateful for!

You make some great points here, too. I agree with everything you said that I understand. Hahaha! I just thought it was southern as a child and it feels like I'm somewhat in the south down here in SW MO.

You said in a previous post that it is way less southern than Little Rock, though, and I totally agree...and am grateful for it! I kind of feel like Baby Bear here in our little part of MO...it's jusssst right!


Yet another thing we agree on!

[Boof]

ajf131 & MrsG,

Being new to MO, and having lived a 'sheltered' life in CA, (meaning not many trips out of the state), all of this 'Southern' vs 'Mid-West' talk has me totaly confused. LOL However, I'm very much enjoying everyone's perspectives and thoughts on the subject. As a newcomer, I find it very useful to hear what you have to say, as I can then use this to help open my eyes a little more to what I'm seeing in my new surroundings.

Thanks for everyone's input...hopefully it will help me learn the MO way of life and settle in better. God knows I could use all the help I can get. LOL

Boof

[DeBonit]

Hello, I plan to move to Kansas City due to a job offer. I am having a difficult time finding a nice apartment as well as a good school district for my teenager. Due to my employer being the City of Kansas City, I must reside within the Kansas City limits. I am under a small window of time. Would someone please give me some valuable information?

[kareybear]

Originally Posted by DeBonit

Hello, I plan to move to Kansas City due to a job offer. I am having a difficult time finding a nice apartment as well as a good school district for my teenager. Due to my employer being the City of Kansas City, I must reside within the Kansas City limits. I am under a small window of time. Would someone please give me some valuable information?

Yes I can. Look at craigslist.com, call chamber of commerce for landlord rentals which 913-371-3070,newspapers www.kansascity.com | Front Page and another Kansas City - News and look in apartment.com. You might also find some rental agency in the newspaper as well. Good luck!