Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Ozark, Union: food, rich, land)

[mrsgenealogy]

ajf, I can't help but wonder why this matters so much to you that you are arguing with others, even to the point of being kind of rude. Is there something in it for you if it is determined to be midwestern...or is it somehow threatening to you if it is determined to be southern? I mean, you started this thread as a question that invited others to share their opinions and then proceeded to argue your point with almost everyone who has disagreed with your position and whether you meant it to or not, sometimes it has come across as decidedly less-than-friendly banter.

This behavior will take you far if you're a lawyer but I'm not sure that this forum is the best place for it. Frankly, I doubt that there are many others who came here to debate or argue points and it's becoming rather user/poster unfriendly.

That's why I've decided to take a big risk here and speak to you about it. Is there is any way that you can be encouraged to just take a big breath, count to 10...and call a truce?

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by mrsgenealogy

ajf, I can't help but wonder why this matters so much to you that you are arguing with others, even to the point of being kind of rude. Is there something in it for you if it is determined to be midwestern...or is it somehow threatening to you if it is determined to be southern? I mean, you started this thread as a question that invited others to share their opinions and then proceeded to argue your point with almost everyone who has disagreed with your position and whether you meant it to or not, sometimes it has come across as decidedly less-than-friendly banter.

This behavior will take you far if you're a lawyer but I'm not sure that this forum is the best place for it. Frankly, I doubt that there are many others who came here to debate or argue points and it's becoming rather user/poster unfriendly.

That's why I've decided to take a big risk here and speak to you about it. Is there is any way that you can be encouraged to just take a big breath, count to 10...and call a truce?

Fine. Truce it is. I'm exhausted going around in this circle anyways, and I'm busy with other more relevant discussions. this discussion gave me my answer a long time ago....like 100 posts back...now I'm merely trying to defend the answer/conclusion I've come to. this thread has been closed for me for awhile as far as i'm concerned guess I've said all there is I have to say...i'm done playing defensive linebacker for awhile...stick a fork in me, I'm done.

[da jammer]

Originally Posted by mrsgenealogy

ajf, I can't help but wonder why this matters so much to you that you are arguing with others, even to the point of being kind of rude. Is there something in it for you if it is determined to be midwestern...or is it somehow threatening to you if it is determined to be southern? I mean, you started this thread as a question that invited others to share their opinions and then proceeded to argue your point with almost everyone who has disagreed with your position and whether you meant it to or not, sometimes it has come across as decidedly less-than-friendly banter.

This behavior will take you far if you're a lawyer but I'm not sure that this forum is the best place for it. Frankly, I doubt that there are many others who came here to debate or argue points and it's becoming rather user/poster unfriendly.

That's why I've decided to take a big risk here and speak to you about it. Is there is any way that you can be encouraged to just take a big breath, count to 10...and call a truce?

Bravo MrsG!! I can't throw you a rep point as this here yeahoo is all out of luvin' for the day!. I had no mutt in this hunt so I haven't paid a whole lotta attention to some of this nonsense but am I reading it right??....The OP has sixty four posts in this thread?? Crazy..!! I've been hangin' out in forums and BBS boards for 12+ years and I've never seen anything like this. Man, I can understand some passion for a subject but sheeesh....eat a banana and calm down eh?

[ShadowCaver]

mrsG - sometimes, maybe, a person can lose sight of the forest, when worrying about exactly what colour each piece of bark may be on one particular tree. IMHO, as I have stated before within this thread, Missouri has parts of Northern, Southern, Plains, and Midwest traits, all combined within her borders. Also, it is silly, if not foolhardy to paint a state as this or that, esp. a state that has so many different characters and characteristics that make her up - and especially when dealing w/ man-made borders. As others have mentioned, two magazines lay 'claim' to MO: "Southern Living" and "Midwest Living" I also present to this debate the following, which also correlates w/ what I and others have put forth in this thread: Upland South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lastly, ajf - thanks tho' for starting this thread, and also, contrary to what you may think, I, for one, have indeed (somewhat ) enjoyed your tenacity,,, but,,, seriously, the ability to give at least an inch when debating in a 'friendly' forum,,, such could go a mile.

[Northwoods Voyager]

Originally Posted by mrsgenealogy

ajf, I can't help but wonder why this matters so much to you that you are arguing with others, even to the point of being kind of rude. Is there something in it for you if it is determined to be midwestern...or is it somehow threatening to you if it is determined to be southern? I mean, you started this thread as a question that invited others to share their opinions and then proceeded to argue your point with almost everyone who has disagreed with your position and whether you meant it to or not, sometimes it has come across as decidedly less-than-friendly banter.

This behavior will take you far if you're a lawyer but I'm not sure that this forum is the best place for it. Frankly, I doubt that there are many others who came here to debate or argue points and it's becoming rather user/poster unfriendly.

That's why I've decided to take a big risk here and speak to you about it. Is there is any way that you can be encouraged to just take a big breath, count to 10...and call a truce?

I thank you so much...I was able to give ya a rep point, enjoyed doing so.
More than one side to this thread, for sure, but in some ways it was 'fun' and really very interesting concerning all of the info 'Mason Dixon line, etc. Really wasn't aware that so many thought soooo strongly about this subject.
but ah am still south hee hee hee

[ajf131]

i understand i have showed open disagreement with many who have responded this...partly I was testing my ability to debate and I guess to see how well i could present evidence and facts supporting my view...regardless....I have learned a lot about Missouri that I did not know already...that apparently what region it belongs in is more hotly contested than I first took for granted. I always knew it was a chameleon state...how chameleon I did not know up until now...it really does appear to be a state of many identities in different regions of it. I guess that is the beauty of being in the geographic center of the country. Thanks to all that have replied for taking the time to express their views...my apologies if I came across as harsh, no offense intended...i've been ready to move on with this discussion for awhile....check out my most recent thread in the general U.S. forum people...that is a thread where no disagreement or arguments are even possible and one worth checking out....thanks for the 174 replies...now 175, and sorry if I came across as a complete ****off at times.

[MOHIllbillyWoman]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Maybe according to you. According to a recent survey conducted by the University of North Carolina which has been ongoing for almost two decades...23% of Missourians considered their communities Southern, while 15% identified as Southerners. 77% considered their communities Midwestern, 85% considered themselves Midwesterners. This was also out of a sampling of around 200 people from all over the state of all ages. Does this sound like a half-and-half state to you? Also, the Missouri Compromise originally did establish that slavery not be allowed in Missouri above the 36 degree 30 north line. It was later modified I believe, but regardless of when, the Mason-Dixon line nevertheless has long been accepted as being 36 degrees 30 north across missouri by many, and in fact, climatalogical patterns, culture, and dialect seem to agree with points at or near this location (37 degrees north to 36 degrees 30 is a very small difference in latitude). In fact, most of Missouri is agriculturally Midwestern and its economy never depended on slavery. Kentucky, by contrast, was and still is very agriculturally Southern and its economy did rely significantly on slavery. Normally I find most maps after the Civil War placing most or all of Missouri above the Mason-Dixon, which IMO makes MUCH more sense than placing most of it below. The real Mason-Dixon IMO is told by speech patterns, ancestry, etc....it makes a lot more sense to just place it horizontally across Missouri anyway. If Missouri is more like Kentucky than Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio I'll be damned is all I have to say. The most modern definition of the Mason Dixon line I'd have to say would generally be areas along and below U.S. Highway 60 basically starting at the Ohio River and heading due west. Missouri below this latitude always seemed to me to be like a totally foreign state compared to the areas above it. most sources generally seem to verify this as well...dialect-boundaries as well as places where the culture, agriculture, and climate become much more Southern all pretty much approximate this area as the true "mason-dixon." Anyone who would argue for the Missouri-Iowa border being the real definiton today IMO is 200 years behind. I still think of most of Missouri as the "Midwest." Midsouth is for areas around and below U.S. 60.

You really do like to argue don't you? This is so irrelevant in the long run. During the War for Southern Independence Missouri was considered basically a half & half state, meaning that many families even broke up over the fact that some went to fight for the South and some went to fight for the North. Actually, you can ignore lattitude and Longitude crap, because physical places do not make what a state is. Literally Missouri is considered the Midwest but when people start discussing the War for Southern Independence then Missouri is considered a half & half state. Now, I won't argue with you because that seems all that you want to do. I stated my opinion and that is all there is to it, but if you have this need to always have the last word and to argue, like you are showing here, then please go elsewhere to do it. All of us who think of Missouri as our home state love it and really don't need outsiders trying to stir trouble up. Missouri is what it is and most of us like it. If you don't then leave and don't let the door hit you you know where.

[MOHIllbillyWoman]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Fine. Truce it is. I'm exhausted going around in this circle anyways, and I'm busy with other more relevant discussions. this discussion gave me my answer a long time ago....like 100 posts back...now I'm merely trying to defend the answer/conclusion I've come to. this thread has been closed for me for awhile as far as i'm concerned guess I've said all there is I have to say...i'm done playing defensive linebacker for awhile...stick a fork in me, I'm done.

Apparently not and I hope that you are serious though. Have a good one.

[MOHIllbillyWoman]

Originally Posted by da jammer

Bravo MrsG!! I can't throw you a rep point as this here yeahoo is all out of luvin' for the day!. I had no mutt in this hunt so I haven't paid a whole lotta attention to some of this nonsense but am I reading it right??....The OP has sixty four posts in this thread?? Crazy..!! I've been hangin' out in forums and BBS boards for 12+ years and I've never seen anything like this. Man, I can understand some passion for a subject but sheeesh....eat a banana and calm down eh?

I so totally agree with you. I have not read all of the nonsense either but it seems rather silly to me to worry about such a thing.

I also can't give a rep to MrsG because I havce to pass more around it seems. Sorry MrsG.

[GraniteStater]

This has definitely been a heated debate! Let's keep this thread civil please, and let the discussion continue!