Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Kansas City, St. Louis: agriculture, trip , work)

[mrsgenealogy]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Fine. Truce it is...now I'm merely trying to defend the answer/conclusion I've come to. this thread has been closed for me for awhile as far as i'm concerned guess I've said all there is I have to say...i'm done playing defensive linebacker for awhile...stick a fork in me, I'm done.

Thanks, ajf! Whew! Take a BIG BREATH, huh? One thing is for certain...this has been an interesting thread! If we can all keep from drawing conclusions that we then impose on others, we'll do fine. Seems MO is still full of people who think differently about things...come to think of it, that's true everywhere!

Originally Posted by da jammer

Bravo MrsG!! I can't throw you a rep point as this here yeahoo is all out of luvin' for the day!.

Thanks, da jammer! I appreciate you, too!

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

mrsG - sometimes, maybe, a person can lose sight of the forest, when worrying about exactly what colour each piece of bark may be on one particular tree. ...Also, it is silly, if not foolhardy to paint a state as this or that, esp. a state that has so many different characters and characteristics that make her up - and especially when dealing w/ man-made borders. As others have mentioned, two magazines lay 'claim' to MO: "Southern Living" and "Midwest Living" I also present to this debate the following, which also correlates w/ what I and others have put forth in this thread: Upland South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lastly, ajf - thanks tho' for starting this thread, and also, contrary to what you may think, I, for one, have indeed (somewhat ) enjoyed your tenacity,,, but,,, seriously, the ability to give at least an inch when debating in a 'friendly' forum,,, such could go a mile.

All good points, ShadowCaver! I think we've all learned something here.

Originally Posted by Northwoods Voyager

I thank you so much...I was able to give ya a rep point, enjoyed doing so.
More than one side to this thread, for sure, but in some ways it was 'fun' and really very interesting concerning all of the info 'Mason Dixon line, etc. Really wasn't aware that so many thought soooo strongly about this subject.
but ah am still south hee hee hee

Thanks for the rep point, Voyager! I think there were a lot of us who were surprised at the strong feelings generated on this topic...and it was interesting.

Originally Posted by ajf131

i understand i have showed open disagreement with many who have responded this...partly I was testing my ability to debate and I guess to see how well i could present evidence and facts supporting my view...regardless....I have learned a lot about Missouri that I did not know already...that apparently what region it belongs in is more hotly contested than I first took for granted. I always knew it was a chameleon state...how chameleon I did not know up until now...it really does appear to be a state of many identities in different regions of it. I guess that is the beauty of being in the geographic center of the country. Thanks to all that have replied for taking the time to express their views...my apologies if I came across as harsh, no offense intended...i've been ready to move on with this discussion for awhile....check out my most recent thread in the general U.S. forum people...that is a thread where no disagreement or arguments are even possible and one worth checking out....thanks for the 174 replies...now 175, and sorry if I came across as a complete ****off at times.

Apologies accepted, ajf! Btw, I checked out your other thread and it looks like a good one. Hope you get some great feedback!

Originally Posted by MOHIllbillyWoman

I also can't give a rep to MrsG because I have to pass more around it seems. Sorry MrsG.

Haha! No worries, Hillbillly! We've all btdt, I think! Thanks for the thought!

Originally Posted by Plains10

This has definitely been a heated debate! Let's keep this thread civil please, and let the discussion continue!

Uh...thanks, Plains10! A day late and a dollar short...but thanks! Really!

This has been fun, everyone! I am sooo done, though!

MrsG

[Plains10]

Originally Posted by mrsgenealogy

Uh...thanks, Plains10! A day late and a dollar short...but thanks! Really!

This has been fun, everyone! I am sooo done, though!

MrsG

Eh, I have been moderating this thread. However, I did not want to jump in on the discussion too often. I think this debate will always be open to discussion with regards to Missouri being southern or midwestern. As long as their are no insults or name calling this thread will continue to be open to more debating.

[mrsgenealogy]

What a guy! Thanks! I appreciate knowing you're there!

[kcmojo]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Missourah is the way residents of the states generally pronounce it. Has nothing to do with South or North. it actually can be traced back to the French settlers who settled the place.

No Residents here pronouce the long eeee at the end. Nearby KC is Kaaaaaay Ceeeeeee MMMMmmmmmm Oooooooooo then the long eeeeeeeee

haha.

We are not behind the Mason Dixon line here. And Weeee Issssss Reeeeeesideeeeeeeents

[Northwoods Voyager]

AS far back as I can remember, Missouri has been pronounced with the 'ee' sound at the end. Have met some that say 'rah' at the end, but mostly in the rural areas where I now reside. I have decided that I will from now on refer to Missouri (ee) as a Southern Midwest State...I love it.

[Plains10]

Originally Posted by Northwoods Voyager

AS far back as I can remember, Missouri has been pronounced with the 'ee' sound at the end. Have met some that say 'rah' at the end, but mostly in the rural areas where I now reside. I have decided that I will from now on refer to Missouri (ee) as a Southern Midwest State...I love it.

Ha, the Missouri/Kansas area is just a little too far south for me. I am in the process of moving to NH as soon as I can get the house sold near the KC metro!

[Indy4570]

Well ain't this fun? 19 pages! WOW! I just could not read them all but after spot checking a few and reading the end I will have to go back and read this post from start to finish. So Educational as well. I live just two counties north of the Arkansas border,( I consider time I spend back here in Indiana merely transitional, Mo is home now.) and I have lived in Indiana and Michigan all of my life. They are most defiantly Midwest states. I have heard that the land is much different up north in Mo than it is down in the Ozarks. From reading things here it would seem the attitudes have some differences as well. My personal take on this debate is that based on my life being spent in the true Midwest, Mo is most definitely a Southern state! But then that is my opinion and we all have one. I for one am glad it feels southern to me and choose to live in the now and not be concerned with how it was back in the Civil War era. I was a re-enactor for several years and portrayed a Confederate soldier mostly because that was the group that first invited me to join in the fun. After a while you can't help but get into the history and learn what you can about the conflict that tore our nation apart for a time and still does in some ways today.
My point is that Southern or Midwestern today is not about slavery or jay-hawkers or state's rights. The feel of a region existed before the conflict and exists today. The smells of the land and the tastes of the food and the richness of a place are what define an area to me. Missouri is a rich place and I love it!
Slavery was a sad chapter in our history and sadly exists today in parts of the world but it does not define the south today. The Civil War is over and we have other issues to tackle today.
Peace be on all of us this day and the days to come. (another one of my opinions..., )

[Robinseggblue]

Originally Posted by Plains10

Ha, the Missouri/Kansas area is just a little too far south for me. I am in the process of moving to NH as soon as I can get the house sold near the KC metro!

Having lived in CT and currently in WI, I'll warn you... NH has really long cold winters! Expect the cold weather to start at the end of September and stay cold through mid-May. Yuck! You'll begin to think that 20*F is warm!

Moving south is our dream and we recently bought a second house in Ava, Mo. We are planning on working here in WI until we get that house paid off... hopefully in about 5 years, then it's full-time in Mo. We love the south, especially the warmer weather, having lived in Middle Tennessee at the Kentucky border for 3 years.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Robinseggblue

Having lived in CT and currently in WI, I'll warn you... NH has really long cold winters! Expect the cold weather to start at the end of September and stay cold through mid-May. Yuck! You'll begin to think that 20*F is warm!

Moving south is our dream and we recently bought a second house in Ava, Mo. We are planning on working here in WI until we get that house paid off... hopefully in about 5 years, then it's full-time in Mo. We love the south, especially the warmer weather, having lived in Middle Tennessee at the Kentucky border for 3 years.

If you love the south, most of Missouri is nothing like Middle Tennessee at the Kentucky border, nor, IMO is Missouri the true South. Most of the state definitely more like downstate Illinois, Central and Southern Indiana, and Central and Southern Ohio...it is not the Upper Midwest...it is, however, the Lower Midwest. However, the house that you have in Ava, Missouri, that part yes is definitely more like the South, around U.S. 60. If you are looking for places in Missouri that are much more like the Upper South than the Midwest, my advice is to stick to the areas around U.S. 60 or below. That's pretty much where you get Southern culture, Southern dialect, and Southern climate all in one scoop. THe part of Missouri I live in is unquestionably the Midwest. The parts of Missouri below U.S. 50 and above U.S. 60 are ambiguous like Southern Illinois below those two highways and Southern Indiana. But Missouri above U.S. 50 is unquestionably the Midwest. How it is like Arkansas and Kentucky than Illinois or Iowa I do not understand. Maybe it makes the most sense to split Missouri up into three regions. It makes little if any sense to say Missouri has no Midwestern characteristics whatsoever, and if it does, below 50%. It's agriculture, speech patterns, and climate above U.S. 50 are just not like the South! plain and simple. I will always see Missouri as more of a Midwestern state than a Southern one, even if the parts below U.S. 60 are part of the Upper South. That is still a NOTICEABLE minority of the state. Missouri is a chameleon state. I dont' understand how slavery alone defined the South...Missouri did not secede, it supported the Union overwhelmingly....it is definitely not The New South...non of its major cities (KC, STL) are experiencing the renewed economic boom of Southern cities, its industry is Midwestern, it gained in black population during the Great Migration, it freed Dred Scott, the conviction was overturned, most of the dialect is not Southern...how is Missouri still Southern despite all these obvious mitigating factors? No Southern state has these many mitigating factors...i guess every man for himself. You can call Missouri Southern, but you can also just as easily call it Midwestern, or a compromise of both....i guess it shouldn't surprise me that everybody has a different view of things. Regardless, the Northern half of Missouri above U.S. 50 is unquestionably Midwestern. There is no reason IMO to say it is the South. It certainly doesn't FEEL like the South to me. The Ozark region yes I can understand why it would be the South...where you talk about Ava, MO, yes, I agree 100% that that is the South. Maybe my argument now is can we just compromise and say it is both? That makes the most sense to me. My reason for calling it Midwestern was because the Northern half above U.S. 50 is definitely the Midwest, and U.S. 50 and U.S. 60 is transitional, and U.S. 60 below is definitely the South...adding up all those characteristics you get majority Midwest...but I guess since only 50% is actually Midwestern...a compromise makes more sense. I liked NorthwoodsVoyagers idea of a Southern Midwestern state better. A pure Southern state makes the least sense of all to me. I guess there are arguments for both...can we keep it that way..Missouri has a much greater history of division than it does supporting one region or the other. give it both folks...that's my vote. But acknowledge which regions of it belong where...

[Plains10]

Originally Posted by Robinseggblue

Having lived in CT and currently in WI, I'll warn you... NH has really long cold winters! Expect the cold weather to start at the end of September and stay cold through mid-May. Yuck! You'll begin to think that 20*F is warm!

Moving south is our dream and we recently bought a second house in Ava, Mo. We are planning on working here in WI until we get that house paid off... hopefully in about 5 years, then it's full-time in Mo. We love the south, especially the warmer weather, having lived in Middle Tennessee at the Kentucky border for 3 years.

Trust me, I know how cold it gets in NH. I can tolerate cold just fine, and I was there in January of 2004 when it was -30F in some areas. I like the cold and can not stand the very long summers and humidity of the lower Midwest and upper South.

I am glad that you like MO. Ava has a fairly good climate because it is located on the Ozark plateau which is higher in elevation. Temperatures can get cold there quite often in Ava. It can be as cold as -10F in the winter and can have some decent snowstorms depending on the year. Summer is very long and lasts from May until the end of September. Most of the time the temperatures are in the 80s and 90s in the summer.