Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (St. Louis, Columbia: lawyer, agriculture, gated)

[Bill Sharp]

I was born and raised in Southern Missouri, taught school here 30 years and believe it to be the greatest place in this nation to live. I live in a smaller town (west plains) and have always found it to be the kind of place to live in, raise children, and do the things in life that are worthwhile.

[JohnKing67]

Originally Posted by Plains10

In my opinion, I really do not think that Kansas City is 100% Midwestern. It has many more southern influences than even St. Louis has. In fact, the southern influences appear to be getting stronger in my opinion. Kansas City really does not have very much in common with Midwest cities like Milwaukee, Chicago, South Bend, Minneapolis, or Cedar Rapids. Kansas City has southern influences along with Great Plains influences. I always tend to think of KC as a Great Plains city with a lot of extra trees planted! I would agree that towns like Kirksville, Chillicothe, and St. Louis are solidly in the Midwest camp. However, I do not feel that you can put percentages on every town and region because it is quite hard to estimate for the most part.

I think some of it has to do with the ruralness of the area too. I have some relatives in a small town in northern Missouri who don't exactly sound "neutral midwestern". Some of them have a moderate southern or "country" accent. Country may be a better word for it. It seems to vary from person to person in northern MO. I'd agree that St. Louis is very midwestern. KC seems to have a bit of that Missouri country/twang accent from what I'd heard.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by JohnKing67

I think some of it has to do with the ruralness of the area too. I have some relatives in a small town in northern Missouri who don't exactly sound "neutral midwestern". Some of them have a moderate southern or "country" accent. Country may be a better word for it. It seems to vary from person to person in northern MO. I'd agree that St. Louis is very midwestern. KC seems to have a bit of that Missouri country/twang accent from what I'd heard.

The ruralness is a factor. Northern Missourians to my ears have a SLIGHT twang, but they still sound much closer to being Midwestern than they to do Southern. The accents I've heard in Northern Missouri are either 100% Midwestern or maybe a bit twanged, typically like you find in the rural Lower Midwest. The Upper Midwest rural areas have flat accents from what i've heard. People from Kansas City to my ears don't sound southern at all...Kansas City I'd say has its own accent, as does ST. Louis. Every city has its own accent, so using it as a reason to say Kansas City is in the south because they say a few things different to me makes no sense. Dialect maps place Kansas City and most of Missouri squarely in the Midwest. I guess everybody has their own definition of a Southern accent. My definition of a Southern accent is Kentucky or heavier. Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana have accents just like this, trust me, maybe not up around the northern areas of their states but farther south throughout the latitudes at which Missouri is at. This is more than 50% of those states. We must have different ears, because I know for certain I have heard accents like in Northern Missouri up to 40 miles north of Dayton.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by JohnKing67

I think some of it has to do with the ruralness of the area too. I have some relatives in a small town in northern Missouri who don't exactly sound "neutral midwestern". Some of them have a moderate southern or "country" accent. Country may be a better word for it. It seems to vary from person to person in northern MO. I'd agree that St. Louis is very midwestern. KC seems to have a bit of that Missouri country/twang accent from what I'd heard.

Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois exhibit this same type of twang, and it doesn't sound Southern to me at all. I've heard accents similar to those of Missouri up to 30 miles north of Dayton and Columbus, and that is not a joke either, and these people were natives to Ohio. This is a typical Lower Midwestern accent that you hear. The rural neutral Midwestern accent you are thinking of is one that is commonly found in the Upper Midwest...mainly starting in Iowa and Northern Illinois and Northern Indiana and Northern Ohio, especially around the Great Lakes, where as Plains has said, the Northern cities shift is taking place. The Midwest remember is subdivided into two regions, the Upper and Lower Midwest. My preference is to use Interstate 80 as the best way to divide the Upper and Lower Midwest. People from the Lower Midwest twang a few words here or there, but it still sounds undoubtedly Midwestern to me. You can't in common sense expect Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois to be free of Southern influence when they touch Kentucky. Neutral Midwestern is typically heard in the Upper Midwest, not as much in the Lower Midwest from my experience. As wikipedia states, "All of the lower Midwestern states, including Missouri, have a major Southern component to them." Ohio and Indiana and Illinois, like Missouri, have both large Baptist and Catholic populations, and are politically complicated. Indiana, Ohio, and Missouri have never had a definitive political stance. (i've looked it up, Missouri, Indiana, and Ohio have leaned both ways many different times throughout the past numbers of elections). In fact, it is probably more than accurate to say that Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana as entire states share more in common with Missouri than they do with Iowa except in their extreme northern parts.

[GraniteStater]

Ajf131,
I replied in a previous post about the meteorology information. I did not know if you had read it.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Plains10

Ajf131,
I replied in a previous post about the meteorology information. I did not know if you had read it.

Yes I'm sorry for not indicating that I did earlier. THis was very helpful Plains, thank you for taking the time to reply to that. I am currently jotting your post down in a notebook actually just to use for future reference should I decide to change my major to meteorology. Thanks again

[hoosier812]

Oh I like this very much! I lived a good while in Jefferson City, MO and I loved it. Missouri is part of the good old Midwest. I'm in Bloomington, Indiana and it's the worst place I've ever lived. Yeah, Indiana is Midwestern, but the way they act in Bloomington makes it seem like the Twilight Zone. I miss MISSouri a lot!! Sweet Midwestern state with Southern hospitality and Northern metropolitanism and Midwestern roots. SHOW ME the good stuff... I saw it all in Missouri -- Jeff City, Columbia, St. Louis, Springfield, Ozarks, Kansas City, Joplin, Rolla... If I had the money I'd leave Indiana tonight and catch the Amtrak to St. Louis.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by hoosier812

Oh I like this very much! I lived a good while in Jefferson City, MO and I loved it. Missouri is part of the good old Midwest. I'm in Bloomington, Indiana and it's the worst place I've ever lived. Yeah, Indiana is Midwestern, but the way they act in Bloomington makes it seem like the Twilight Zone. I miss MISSouri a lot!! Sweet Midwestern state with Southern hospitality and Northern metropolitanism and Midwestern roots. SHOW ME the good stuff... I saw it all in Missouri -- Jeff City, Columbia, St. Louis, Springfield, Ozarks, Kansas City, Joplin, Rolla... If I had the money I'd leave Indiana tonight and catch the Amtrak to St. Louis.

Indiana has plenty of "Southern hospitality" as well. Indianapolis and Southern Indiana in general from what I can tell have characteristics of it. The people are very polite and accomodating of strangers and they serve you volumes of delicious meals...i dunno...that was always my definition of Southern hospitality. As far as St. Louis goes, there is not a shred of Southern hospitality that I've ever picked up on unless you call people letting you get in the lanes in front of them on the highway Southern hospitality Rest of Missouri I can't speak for...I know that Southern Missouri, especially around Springfield and Sikeston and Poplar Bluff have a lot of Southern hospitality. Northern Missouri I haven't really noticed any. Again, my experience.

[southern_boi]

Missouri and the cities in Missouri is defin southern.st.Louis may consider them self mid-west folks but they have southern accent similar to those of Memphis, even doe KC has western similarities the south is know for it's bar-b q and KC delivers no doubt. also the northern most city of Missouri entitled kingdom city consider there selfs all day southerns and the city is located higher than st.Louis and KC'S SO TO ANSWER the question Missouri is defin southern state.ALso if you use the mason-dixion line that line reaches all the ways to Missouri's border separating the north from Missouri(south). do the research you'll find out. come on how do folks let two cities KC & ST.LOUIS determine a whold state being mid-west i thought what ever the state is the cities fell with in it. i never heard Missouri being mid-west until nelly came out ,then he had to explain his self why he was calling Missouri mid-west if it's is known to be a southern state.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by southern_boi

Missouri and the cities in Missouri is defin southern.st.Louis may consider them self mid-west folks but they have southern accent similar to those of Memphis, even doe KC has western similarities the south is know for it's bar-b q and KC delivers no doubt. also the northern most city of Missouri entitled kingdom city consider there selfs all day southerns and the city is located higher than st.Louis and KC'S SO TO ANSWER the question Missouri is defin southern state.ALso if you use the mason-dixion line that line reaches all the ways to Missouri's border separating the north from Missouri(south). do the research you'll find out. come on how do folks let two cities KC & ST.LOUIS determine a whold state being mid-west i thought what ever the state is the cities fell with in it. i never heard Missouri being mid-west until nelly came out ,then he had to explain his self why he was calling Missouri mid-west if it's is known to be a southern state.

I'd heard of Missouri being the midwest going all the way back to the time it was established as a state, even when it was once a border state. As to St. Louis and KC pretending to be midwest, we don't sound a tad like people from Memphis. St. Louis is every bit as Midwestern as Chicago, and Kansas City is either Midwestern or the Great Plains but I still think of it as the Midwest. I know plenty of people from Kingdom City that consider themselves through and through Midwesterners. As far as Missouri being Midwestern, I think it fits in better as a Midwestern state than a Southern one, but St. Louis is unquestionably Midwestern. I've lived here for 21 years and heard very few Southern accents at all around here. Also, a poll conducted on Missouri as a whole shows 77% considering themselves Midwestern, 23% Southern. These statistics are quite similar to Indiana's. i think it's safe to say Missouri above U.S. Highway 60 is Midwestern.