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10-08-2007, 05:56 PM
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Not a member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,763 posts, read 2,912,162 times
Reputation: 660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCaver
Guess part of the issue is that while there are facts, there are varying interpretations of the facts, due to perceptions, agendas, and/or incomplete knowledge. There are black and white parts to everything, but then there are also varying shades of grey within just about everything that humans try to put into a box, due to nomenclatures, definitions, viewpoints, etc. Pepsi in one area of the country is pop, another soda, another its even called Coke, over there its a cola, and so on and so forth...
IMHO, when humans try to pigeon hole and categorizer all that is around them, issues arise... take for example the thread herein this forum started just the other day related to diff between a pond and a lake. One person's +10 acre body of water that has depth of >15' that is stream fed [woooo, wait a minute now, just what the heck is a stream?!?!?   ] is a lake, whereas other person will call it a pond, based on their different background, thoughts, etc.
Missouri, a midwestern state w/ southern influences, its a special wonderful place...  |
I agree on that. And I have become partial to, more or less, Missouri being a border state. Historically, this is certainly the case, that is not something I deny. I guess when you get down to the real heart of the matter it is both. But, I still believe that it's not 50-50 everywhere you go (for example, in Kansas City or St. Louis). Southern Missouri I definitely agree is either mixed or Southern. But then again, so are Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana as you have so wisely pointed out. So I dunno...take your pick I guess folks. Either way, the South and Midwest are great places to be. Living in St. Louis my whole life, I just have always identified with the Midwest.
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10-12-2007, 09:09 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
109 posts, read 96,895 times
Reputation: 59
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Missouri is a mixed state of every cultural. St Louis to Kansas City to Branson, there are so.... many people that have moved to MO that every culture is here and the dialect changes with every individual speaking depending on their cultural background. This is the beauty of the open-minded state.
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10-18-2007, 11:27 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
158 posts, read 147,670 times
Reputation: 69
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The Modern South (Dixie Land) technically consists of 17 states plus the District of Columbia:
The Lower (Deep) South-7 states:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
The Middle (Mid) South-4 states:
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
The Upper (Border) South-6 states:
Delaware
Maryland
West Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Oklahoma
The Confederate South (Dixie Land) consisted of 13 states-hence the 13 stars on the Confederate flag:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Missouri
Kentucky
Missouri, culturally is divided, but since Missouri is one single state and it did in effect secede and is givin an honorary star on the Confederate Flag, it is technically a Southern state. Just like Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio are Northern states with plenty of Southern culture in their Southern areas, Missouri is a Southern state with plenty of Northern culture in it's Northern areas. The central areas are a blend of the two. The Midwest is a region of the North. Missouri, as was stated, did more or less side with the South. It's below the Mason-Dixon Line. It's a Soutehrn state.
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10-19-2007, 11:44 AM
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Not a member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,763 posts, read 2,912,162 times
Reputation: 660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida southerner 3
The Modern South (Dixie Land) technically consists of 17 states plus the District of Columbia:
The Lower (Deep) South-7 states:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
The Middle (Mid) South-4 states:
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
The Upper (Border) South-6 states:
Delaware
Maryland
West Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Oklahoma
The Confederate South (Dixie Land) consisted of 13 states-hence the 13 stars on the Confederate flag:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Missouri
Kentucky
Missouri, culturally is divided, but since Missouri is one single state and it did in effect secede and is givin an honorary star on the Confederate Flag, it is technically a Southern state. Just like Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio are Northern states with plenty of Southern culture in their Southern areas, Missouri is a Southern state with plenty of Northern culture in it's Northern areas. The central areas are a blend of the two. The Midwest is a region of the North. Missouri, as was stated, did more or less side with the South. It's below the Mason-Dixon Line. It's a Soutehrn state.
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Where are you getting that Missouri legitimately seceded? It did not! the state government was no longer recognized by the state when it did secede, and far more fought for the Union than the Confederacy. so technically the secession is illegitimate because the convention did not represent the desire of the state. for a Southern state with Northern culture, Missouri has a lot more Northern culture I'd say than Southern culture. It's the other way around. I'd say today that Missouri is a Midwestern state with Southern culture. Have you ever even been to Missouri?
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10-19-2007, 11:47 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
91 posts, read 89,458 times
Reputation: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida southerner 3
The Modern South (Dixie Land) technically consists of 17 states plus the District of Columbia:
The Lower (Deep) South-7 states:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
The Middle (Mid) South-4 states:
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
The Upper (Border) South-6 states:
Delaware
Maryland
West Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Oklahoma
The Confederate South (Dixie Land) consisted of 13 states-hence the 13 stars on the Confederate flag:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Missouri
Kentucky
Missouri, culturally is divided, but since Missouri is one single state and it did in effect secede and is givin an honorary star on the Confederate Flag, it is technically a Southern state. Just like Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio are Northern states with plenty of Southern culture in their Southern areas, Missouri is a Southern state with plenty of Northern culture in it's Northern areas. The central areas are a blend of the two. The Midwest is a region of the North. Missouri, as was stated, did more or less side with the South. It's below the Mason-Dixon Line. It's a Soutehrn state.
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Yea Missouri was definitely a union state and is definitely above the mason dixon line.
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10-19-2007, 04:57 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Colorado
11 posts, read 7,981 times
Reputation: 10
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It's interesting though, depending on who you talk to Mo is either southern or midwestern. Here in CO people call it midwestern, but I've talked to several people from "northern" states that consider it a southern state. I grew up visiting my g-parents there and then lived there for about 5 years and I have always seen it as more midwestern.
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10-19-2007, 05:01 PM
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Not a member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,763 posts, read 2,912,162 times
Reputation: 660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida southerner 3
The Modern South (Dixie Land) technically consists of 17 states plus the District of Columbia:
The Lower (Deep) South-7 states:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
The Middle (Mid) South-4 states:
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
The Upper (Border) South-6 states:
Delaware
Maryland
West Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Oklahoma
The Confederate South (Dixie Land) consisted of 13 states-hence the 13 stars on the Confederate flag:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Louisiana
Texas
Virginia
Arkansas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Missouri
Kentucky
Missouri, culturally is divided, but since Missouri is one single state and it did in effect secede and is givin an honorary star on the Confederate Flag, it is technically a Southern state. Just like Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio are Northern states with plenty of Southern culture in their Southern areas, Missouri is a Southern state with plenty of Northern culture in it's Northern areas. The central areas are a blend of the two. The Midwest is a region of the North. Missouri, as was stated, did more or less side with the South. It's below the Mason-Dixon Line. It's a Soutehrn state.
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Missouri is not below the Mason-Dixon line. The Ohio River is the Mason-Dixon line, and Missouri is almost completely north of where the Ohio touches it. More or less sided with the South? Really? Explain why twice as many people supported the Union in this state then if it supported the South. You cannot minimize the Northern culture in Missouri at all. It more less completely dominates the Northern half of the state and exists in most of Southern Missouri. Southern culture, on the other hand, is generally confined to the extreme southern portions of the state, like Sikeston, Poplar Bluff, Cape Girardeau, and Springfield.
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10-19-2007, 05:41 PM
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Eastern Missouri
8 posts, read 6,902 times
Reputation: 21
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I believe it is a Midwestern state, at least the part of the state I'm from (the St. Louis region). I'm not that familiar with the southern section; I've visited there only a few times, and I gather that part of the state seems maybe more southern than where I live. So, to appease everyone, I would just say it's kind of a border or mixed state.
Most native Missourians, as far as I know, don't usually speak with a southern accent at all. Maybe only some of those who are from the south or southeast, like the Bootheel.
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10-19-2007, 11:04 PM
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Thankful for so much:)
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Woods of Missouri with many Critters
22,755 posts, read 3,433,555 times
Reputation: 22794
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Ummmmmm. Here we go again.. Having been all over this state, except for the very Northwest corner, I still maintain that Missouri is mostly a 'Southern Midwest' state.
As it is now. Perhaps at one time in this state's history it may have been considered Northern, Southern, even the far west, at one distant time in the past. It is really all a matter of the individual's perception and definition of each description.
If you take a map of the lower 48 and divide it equally vertically and then horizontically you can look a the 4 divisions and what would you call each? Then take the center and draw vertical lines on the eastern border of Illinois, to the north and to the south. Draw a vertical line on the western edge of Kansas, to the north and to the south. Now you have a central section. Is this then the midwest? Or how far east and how far west would you have to draw these lines to complete a 'midwest' section?
What I am so lamely attempting to put before you is the fact that lines in reality mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. It is all in the individual's desires and personal viewpoint. I have yet to agree wholeheartedly with any single definition, even my own. Missouri - mostly a Southern Midwest state... 
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10-20-2007, 12:47 AM
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On the misty plateau
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Merrimack Valley, NH
6,764 posts, read 4,738,057 times
Reputation: 2851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwoods Voyager
Ummmmmm. Here we go again.. Having been all over this state, except for the very Northwest corner, I still maintain that Missouri is mostly a 'Southern Midwest' state.
As it is now. Perhaps at one time in this state's history it may have been considered Northern, Southern, even the far west, at one distant time in the past. It is really all a matter of the individual's perception and definition of each description.
If you take a map of the lower 48 and divide it equally vertically and then horizontically you can look a the 4 divisions and what would you call each? Then take the center and draw vertical lines on the eastern border of Illinois, to the north and to the south. Draw a vertical line on the western edge of Kansas, to the north and to the south. Now you have a central section. Is this then the midwest? Or how far east and how far west would you have to draw these lines to complete a 'midwest' section?
What I am so lamely attempting to put before you is the fact that lines in reality mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. It is all in the individual's desires and personal viewpoint. I have yet to agree wholeheartedly with any single definition, even my own. Missouri - mostly a Southern Midwest state... |
The line concerning where the western extent of the Midwest is generally the Missouri River valley. As soon as you go across the border into Kansas and head west you will see fewer trees. The plains states includes most of Kansas, Nebraska, SD, ND, western Iowa, etc.
West of the central plains area is the High Plains. This area is located in western sections of ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, east CO, east WY, east MT, east NM, and west TX. The High Plains is a desolate area with an agricultural base. This area does not have the natural resources necessary to support very many people. Irrigation is widespread in sections of the high plains, and that has led to the depletion of the Ogallala Aquifer in large area. Dryland farming will soon make a comeback because irrigation agriculture in areas that receive 10 inches of annual precipitation is unsustainable. Most rural counties in the high plains are basically retirement communites because most younger people leave to get an education and then move to larger urban areas with a wider selection of jobs. In ND and SD the common divide is the Missouri river which divides the two states into two sections. The "west river" area in SD and ND is comprised of badlands, a semi-arid climate, a lot of ranching, as well as the Black Hills. The landscape clearly has a more western flavor as well. The east river area in the two states is much flatter and agricultural with more rainfall necessary to grow crops. Glacial lakes are common in areas of the Dakotas as well. I would say the "east river" areas are a blend of the plains along with a westward extension of midwest traits.
Nebraska is a plains state and NOT a midwest state for the following reasons:
1) Irrigation is very common in most areas of the state in order to grow crops.
2) Population densities are very low in most areas of the state including the desolate "Sand Hills" region.
3) Nebraska has few trees in most areas of the state, especially away from river valley areas.
4) Omaha, the largest metro, is practically located in Iowa. Therefore, a small portion of the state (Omaha) might be considered the midwest.
5) Most rural counties in Nebraska are rapidly losing population, and that is similar to what is happening in the other plains states.
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