Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Kansas City, St. Louis: real estate, city hall, attorney)

[Northwoods Voyager]

I'll say it again: Missouri is a Southern Midwestern State! When Ohio is considered Midwestern by the news media, I honestly cannot consider Missouri totally Midwestern then. Missouri is divided not only by the Missouri river, but by the Ozarks and the foothills of the Ozarks.

Stop and visit anyone in say, Eminence, MO. Do you really believe that the locals are Midwestern? Come on now, they relate far more to the Southern ways than folks from Columbia, Jeff City, KC or St. Louis. I have lived in this state for more years than I care to say here. I am a senior citizen!!! No one, and I repeat, no one can say that Missouri is just a Midwestern state. We are unique in many ways. Probably the only state that is so diverse in geography, culture, speech, etc. And I thank you very much for this uniqueness.

Good post, Gramma Becca!

[ajf131]

I really don't care anymore...people will all have different opinions about Southern Missouri...the bottom line is that Missouri is officially considered a Midwestern state by the Census Bureau...and Kansas City and St. Louis are 100% Midwestern, that is beyond debate, that is more or less the facts. I am absolutely, positively, without a doubt not a Southerner in any way, shape, or form, nor is any other St. Louisan that I know. If Missouri as a whole cannot be considered Midwestern, the entire Northern half can be without a doubt. I thought this debate was over...this thread needs to be closed. THe Ozarks being Southern Hill is a matter of opinion, plain and simple....I know many people from there who feel just as affiliated to the Midwest as to the South....the Southern half of Missouri is NOT the true South. It is a border region more than anything else. And the reason Southern Missouri has no big city values is because there are no reasonably big cities in the Southern half of Missouri. You folks can make your arguments as much as you want to change my mind now...this has been a closed matter for me for months though, so it's not gonna work. you all stick to your opinions, i'll stick to mine. there is no right or wrong answer anyway. My impression of the Missouri Ozarks is that more often than not, depending on where you are from in there, is that today it has both Midwestern and Southern characteristics. THere is a noticeable difference in culture and attitude in the hills of Kentucky and Tennessee I'd say than in those of Missouri. If anything, the Ozarks probably are most similar to West Virginia...and that area is not 100% Southern. i've probably been to more places in the U.S. now than most people in this forum to know exactly what I'm talking about. And if somebody wants to tell my family that traces life in southwestern Missouri back more than 100 years that they don't know their culture, fine. I am 100% convinced that most of the Missouri Ozarks are both Southern and Midwestern. Places like Branson and Poplar Bluff I consider to be truly Southern. Places like Rolla, Farmington, yes even Springfield and Joplin I think are cultural crossroads. Their industries, agriculture, cuisine, architecture and speech patterns and even climate are clearly a mixture of both. Their political beliefs and religious values are more on the Southern side, that much I will agree to though. I know when I'm in the South...the Ozarks even stand for I believe even "pathway to Arkansas" or something...they are definitely a mixture of cultures as well as their own entity. I view most of Southern Missouri myself as belonging to both the South and Midwest. However, places like the bootheel and the Mississippi Delta region of SE Missouri are what I would consider to be truly Southern.

[northbayeric]

I just know that when we get moved back there, it'll feel both more Midwestern AND more Southern than it does here. And that's terrific on both counts!

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Northwoods Voyager

I'll say it again: Missouri is a Southern Midwestern State! When Ohio is considered Midwestern by the news media, I honestly cannot consider Missouri totally Midwestern then. Missouri is divided not only by the Missouri river, but by the Ozarks and the foothills of the Ozarks.

Stop and visit anyone in say, Eminence, MO. Do you really believe that the locals are Midwestern? Come on now, they relate far more to the Southern ways than folks from Columbia, Jeff City, KC or St. Louis. I have lived in this state for more years than I care to say here. I am a senior citizen!!! No one, and I repeat, no one can say that Missouri is just a Midwestern state. We are unique in many ways. Probably the only state that is so diverse in geography, culture, speech, etc. And I thank you very much for this uniqueness.

Good post, Gramma Becca!

Ohio is a divided state in many ways too though. Southeastern and even East Central Ohio are often considered to be part of Appalachia, and even have the Appalachian culture of West Virginia, and Southern Indiana and Southern Ohio are influenced by Kentucky. Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana, like Missouri, all have parts of them which are more less blended in with the south and are diversified in their speech patterns as well. That much I know for certain having relatives in Ohio. Have family from both Southeastern and Northeastern Ohio. Can back it up with facts if necessary.

[Northwoods Voyager]

I do agree ajf131. Y'all began this 32 pages ago when you stated that you were taking a poll. Plain and simple! And during the postings on these 32 pages, posters have expressed their beliefs, feelings, desires, etc. in many forms.

You have demonstrated by your many posts on the subject at hand, that you consider 'yourself' a Midwesterner. I do believe that on page one, you asked specifically how others considered the 'state'. You are a Midwesterner. No doubt about it! and as a people, I would agree that most, if not all of us, are to some degree, Midwesterners!.

Getting back to the 'state', tho'. Missouri as a whole is a Midwestern state with many influences. Chiefly among these influences in the southern regions, is the southern states of Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas. And that is natural, being that many peoples came to Missouri from these states during the early, middle and late 1800's.

We are not an eastern state. We are not a western state, Nor are we a northern or southern state. We can be truly, IMHO be considered a Midwestern state with Southern influences: A southern Midwest state. Again, unique in every way is Missouri. I am truly proud of it. Born and raised in the CWE of St. Louis of peoples from Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia. All wonderful ancestors from southern states.

Whoops, that is my paternal side. Shouldn't forget my German heritage. Direct from Germany on the maternal side. Hmmmmm, now what does that make Missouri? lol

Thanks again, ajf131. It has been fun and I do hope that no one has ever taken seriously any or all of our postings. It was a simple 'poll' and many have expressed their personal beliefs as well as quoting certain publications and other written material. So now the poll has been taken and that is just what it was/is...no simple and final answer as there never can be with a 'poll'. All good points made and expressed by many.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Northwoods Voyager

I do agree ajf131. Y'all began this 32 pages ago when you stated that you were taking a poll. Plain and simple! And during the postings on these 32 pages, posters have expressed their beliefs, feelings, desires, etc. in many forms.

You have demonstrated by your many posts on the subject at hand, that you consider 'yourself' a Midwesterner. I do believe that on page one, you asked specifically how others considered the 'state'. You are a Midwesterner. No doubt about it! and as a people, I would agree that most, if not all of us, are to some degree, Midwesterners!.

Getting back to the 'state', tho'. Missouri as a whole is a Midwestern state with many influences. Chiefly among these influences in the southern regions, is the southern states of Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas. And that is natural, being that many peoples came to Missouri from these states during the early, middle and late 1800's.

We are not an eastern state. We are not a western state, Nor are we a northern or southern state. We can be truly, IMHO be considered a Midwestern state with Southern influences: A southern Midwest state. Again, unique in every way is Missouri. I am truly proud of it. Born and raised in the CWE of St. Louis of peoples from Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia. All wonderful ancestors from southern states.

Whoops, that is my paternal side. Shouldn't forget my German heritage. Direct from Germany on the maternal side. Hmmmmm, now what does that make Missouri? lol

Thanks again, ajf131. It has been fun and I do hope that no one has ever taken seriously any or all of our postings. It was a simple 'poll' and many have expressed their personal beliefs as well as quoting certain publications and other written material. So now the poll has been taken and that is just what it was/is...no simple and final answer as there never can be with a 'poll'. All good points made and expressed by many.

Now I agree with you 100% Northwoods if that is what you mean by a Southern Midwest state. Others can take the replies besides mine to this thread seriously. I started this thread not only to help myself but I guess for others to see what other people thought besides me. I posted this thread for many others to view, not just myself. So basically, while I stand by my own arguments, i don't expect others to agree. This was also a poll intended to show what most people's positions on the matter are, not what mine are. So I guess I would rather just have people state their beliefs without attacking mine....that's what i've felt has been the mood lately. But let the poll go on by all means....other viewers can draw their own conclusions...mine may not even be the correct one...I'm just one person. There are 6 billion other people on this planet. I will state this...if the Ozarks have to be considered a region apart from the Midwest, I can deal with that I guess. I will agree with Missouri still being a border state I guess if I'm presented with enough facts. So far that is what the majority of the opinions on the poll seems to suggest...it's a 50-50 split.

[TXDadof1]

After just finding out today that I am returning to the Ozarks to raise my son I stopped in to read about Missouri. Since leaving Missouree (I originated from the southern portion), I have made stops in Memphis, TN, Eastern NC, and Dallas-Fort Worth. Here is how MO is divided: Anything north of I-70 (including St. Louis) is Midwestern (influenced by IL, IA, MN, WI, IN), anything North of I-44 and South of I-70 (including KC) is the Great Plains (KS, NE, OK influenced), and anything south of I-44 is the south (TN/AR infuenced).
To prove the formula I offer small to mid-sized example cities: Poplar Bluff, Cape and West Plains- all southern, Nevada, Warrensburg and Jefferson City- Great Plains, look at Kirksville, St Joe and Hannibal and you will see the midwest.
The industry- or lack of, the agriculture, the religions, the food and the people of Missouri all reflect the above mentioned "Zones."
Seriously, Missouri is a wonderful state with lots of regional influences. Missouri is only one of two states in the country that has 8 border states. It also sits in the geographical center of the US. I belive that this allows MO to absorb culture and traditions from all its borders. Missouri truly is a diverse and interesting place to live and I cannot wait to get beck home!

[ajf131]

Simple roads do not divide cultures by a long shot. Most of Southern Missouri in my opinion except for the extreme Southeastern and South Central parts does not lean Southern. I-44 and I-70=the Great Plains? No way. Jefferson City is the Midwest, not the Great Plains. None of Missouri is the Great Plains. The parts of Missouri between Kentucky, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Arkansas I agree are Southern, but this is a minority of the state.

[Darlynn0217]

Originally Posted by TXDadof1

After just finding out today that I am returning to the Ozarks to raise my son I stopped in to read about Missouri. Since leaving Missouree (I originated from the southern portion), I have made stops in Memphis, TN, Eastern NC, and Dallas-Fort Worth. Here is how MO is divided: Anything north of I-70 (including St. Louis) is Midwestern (influenced by IL, IA, MN, WI, IN), anything North of I-44 and South of I-70 (including KC) is the Great Plains (KS, NE, OK influenced), and anything south of I-44 is the south (TN/AR infuenced).
To prove the formula I offer small to mid-sized example cities: Poplar Bluff, Cape and West Plains- all southern, Nevada, Warrensburg and Jefferson City- Great Plains, look at Kirksville, St Joe and Hannibal and you will see the midwest.
The industry- or lack of, the agriculture, the religions, the food and the people of Missouri all reflect the above mentioned "Zones."
Seriously, Missouri is a wonderful state with lots of regional influences. Missouri is only one of two states in the country that has 8 border states. It also sits in the geographical center of the US. I belive that this allows MO to absorb culture and traditions from all its borders. Missouri truly is a diverse and interesting place to live and I cannot wait to get beck home!

Interesting arguement! Lots of strong opinions on this thread! Good Luck on your trip back "HOME"!!

[ajf131]

Southern Missouri to me does not really seem to lean towards any particular region. You see a true clash of cultures in the parts of the state south of Highway 50 in my opinion. But as far as I am concerned, you are not definitively in the South until you are below Springfield, Joplin, or Cape Girardeau. Poplar Bluff and Sikeston I agree are Southern, but you have to remember that this was territory that would have been part of Arkansas had Missouri not been so insistent on having it upon statehood. The parts of Missouri that dip into the South are very different from most of the state. I still believe that overall Missouri is ultimately a Midwestern state...by today's standards anyway. An overwhelming majority of its counties have German as their primary influence, its agriculture is Midwestern, its climate is more Midwestern than Southern, Southern dialect is predominant in only the extreme Southern parts of the state, it supported the Union in the Civil War and did not secede, its major cities (except for those practically knocking on arkansas and kentucky's doors) are culturally, architecturally, and economically Midwestern...Catholics and Baptists are both big presences in the state (like in its neighbors: Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio). In addition, Southern cuisine is hard to find here. Missouri I agree does have a major Southern component to it, but to me it is the Southern Midwest, as Northwoods put it: A Lower Midwestern state with Southern influences. Today that is certainly the best way to describe it.