Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Cape Girardeau, Poplar Bluff: plantations, bars, arena)

[northbayeric]

I think I'm gettin' a hankerin' for some prah-lines and sweet tea! On a more serious note, St. Joseph, during the time I got to spend there back in late March with my better half, felt decidedly Midwestern, and in turn felt way more Southern than here in Santa Rosa, CA, which except for the weather probably feels at least as Northern as Deadhorse, Alaska when you don't factor in the Hispanic population.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Poplar Bluff is part of Missouri, as is Sikeston.

In Sikeston they grow cotton almost in town.

To call Poplar Bluff not in Missouri is weird, though. It's more southern than St. Louis for sure, but it's still in Missouri. I live an hour from Arkansas and I DO NOT live in Arkansas (no offense to it). We make Arkansas jokes all the time.

That's like saying Southern Illinois is in Kentucky because, from my understanding, they act and sound pretty southern, too.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989

Poplar Bluff is part of Missouri, as is Sikeston.

In Sikeston they grow cotton almost in town.

To call Poplar Bluff not in Missouri is weird, though. It's more southern than St. Louis for sure, but it's still in Missouri. I live an hour from Arkansas and I DO NOT live in Arkansas (no offense to it). We make Arkansas jokes all the time.

That's like saying Southern Illinois is in Kentucky because, from my understanding, they act and sound pretty southern, too.

I never said it was not part of Missouri. Extreme Southern Illinois and extreme Southern Missouri are different from the rest of the state, and are practically in Southern states. That's what I'm saying. They are so close to other Southern states that it's not surprising you would find they have heavy Southern culture.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by northbayeric

I think I'm gettin' a hankerin' for some prah-lines and sweet tea! On a more serious note, St. Joseph, during the time I got to spend there back in late March with my better half, felt decidedly Midwestern, and in turn felt way more Southern than here in Santa Rosa, CA, which except for the weather probably feels at least as Northern as Deadhorse, Alaska when you don't factor in the Hispanic population.

That makes sense in my opinion, considering the Midwest has a lot more in common with the South than California.

[zz4guy]

Coming from Iowa, I'd say MO is southern. At least to a degree. Once you get south of I-80 people start talking with a southern twang. It's amazing how noticable it is. I don't see why it wouldnt be considered a southern state. As somebody pointed out it is the warmest of the midwest and it's longitude is equal to a lot of other southern states like TN, KY, WV. I'd say Kansas is southern too. A lot of southern influence there as well.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

So, St Louis is then just about part of Illinois?

No. How about I re-explain this. Poplar Bluff lies in an area that essentially dips into the South. Due west of it is Oklahoma, due east is Kentucky, and 30 miles nearest to it is Arkansas. Therefore, it's really not surprising that it would have Southern culture considering it is very near to areas that have it. Poplar Bluff, unlike St. Louis, is located in a part of Missouri that is very different from the vast majority of the state landscape wise and culturally. In any case, in my opinion being able to get true grits in extreme Southern Missouri only doesn't really go a long way to say Missouri is a Southern state, or even really a border state in my opinion at least unless you are talking in the sense that it borders Southern states, and a tiny minority of it does. That's just my opinion. You can get sweet tea in extreme Southern Illinois just like in extreme Southern Missouri. So maybe what I am saying is that being able to get true grits only when you are in the extreme Southern part of the state is a long way off from saying this is a Southern state, or even a border state.

[denverian]

I say Missiouri gets more southern as you head south of I-70. I've been to the Ozarks and that's pretty Southern, if you ask me. Plus with the rolling mountains, it just looks more southern to me for some reason. The accent gets rather thick in southern MO too. I've been through NE MO and there the accent seemed a little more "upper Midwest" to me, so the state definitely has it's different feels and dialects in different parts. Nice to have the variety. Here in CO and the West, everyone sounds the same everywhere.

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by zz4guy

Coming from Iowa, I'd say MO is southern. At least to a degree. Once you get south of I-80 people start talking with a southern twang. It's amazing how noticable it is. I don't see why it wouldnt be considered a southern state. As somebody pointed out it is the warmest of the midwest and it's longitude is equal to a lot of other southern states like TN, KY, WV. I'd say Kansas is southern too. A lot of southern influence there as well.

The accent typical in the rural Ozarks is quite a bit different than a true southern accent. More of a "Midwestern drawl" I've heard it called, but it is definitely quite a bit different than any southern accent I've heard. Southern Missouri may have a latitude equal to parts of Kentucky and Tennessee, but the majority of the state lies well north of those two states.

While MO being Southern is at least somewhat debatable, Kansas being southern really isn't at all. Kansas is a Midwestern state, pure and simple. Kansas never had any slaves (actually having border wars with Missouri over the subject), and the economy of Kansas is primarily agricultural. The Flint Hills of eastern Kansas and the high plains of Western Kansas also look nothing like the piney woods of southern Arkansas or Louisiana, or the Appalachian mountains in Tennessee or North Carolina. Kansas is also much drier than any of the south, and I've never heard a southern accent spoken from anyone in Kansas (most people in the state don't seem to have an accent at all).

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by zz4guy

Coming from Iowa, I'd say MO is southern. At least to a degree. Once you get south of I-80 people start talking with a southern twang. It's amazing how noticable it is. I don't see why it wouldnt be considered a southern state. As somebody pointed out it is the warmest of the midwest and it's longitude is equal to a lot of other southern states like TN, KY, WV. I'd say Kansas is southern too. A lot of southern influence there as well.

Whatever Southern twang you are describing, I haven't picked up on it having been to that area and it is nowhere close to the Southern accents you hear in Kentucky. I agree that the dialect changes at I-80, but not even remotely close to the way you are describing. It may be twanged in a few ways, but you really will hear the same accent in most of Illinois, Indiana and Ohio that is at the same latitude as Missouri. While Missouri is the warmest of the Midwest, very little of Missouri is borders on Kentucky and Tennessee. Geographically and a latitude-wise it is centrally located. West Virginia I also think is tough to pin down as Southern given much of its Western border is shared with Ohio and most of Ohio's eastern border is West Virginia, just like most of Illinois' western border is Missouri. Missouri is at the same latitude as 3/4 of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. West Virginia also was once a part of Virginia and shares most of its eastern border with Virginia, explaining why it's Southern influence is much heavier Missouri's, so that kind of goes to show that latitude doesn't mean everything. Missouri is different because virtually all of its eastern and western borders consist of Midwestern states. In my opinion, Interstate 80 is the border between the Upper Midwest and Lower Midwest. These two regions have slightly different accents and the Lower Midwest has some Southern influences. And Kansas does not have very much Southern influence at all. I don't know what you are seeing there. So as far as to a degree, I will agree that yes Missouri is somewhat Southern, but that's a long way off from saying it doesn't belong in the Midwest, especially since Illinois and Indiana and Ohio are also Southern in certain areas.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

The accent typical in the rural Ozarks is quite a bit different than a true southern accent. More of a "Midwestern drawl" I've heard it called, but it is definitely quite a bit different than any southern accent I've heard. Southern Missouri may have a latitude equal to parts of Kentucky and Tennessee, but the majority of the state lies well north of those two states.

While MO being Southern is at least somewhat debatable, Kansas being southern really isn't at all. Kansas is a Midwestern state, pure and simple. Kansas never had any slaves (actually having border wars with Missouri over the subject), and the economy of Kansas is primarily agricultural. The Flint Hills of eastern Kansas and the high plains of Western Kansas also look nothing like the piney woods of southern Arkansas or Louisiana, or the Appalachian mountains in Tennessee or North Carolina. Kansas is also much drier than any of the south, and I've never heard a southern accent spoken from anyone in Kansas (most people in the state don't seem to have an accent at all).

Another thing that should be noted with Missouri is that these so-called "Border ruffians" who quarrelled with their Kansas neighbors were not your typical Missourians.