Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Richmond, Savannah: trailer, island, county)

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

The accent typical in the rural Ozarks is quite a bit different than a true southern accent. More of a "Midwestern drawl" I've heard it called, but it is definitely quite a bit different than any southern accent I've heard. Southern Missouri may have a latitude equal to parts of Kentucky and Tennessee, but the majority of the state lies well north of those two states.

While MO being Southern is at least somewhat debatable, Kansas being southern really isn't at all. Kansas is a Midwestern state, pure and simple. Kansas never had any slaves (actually having border wars with Missouri over the subject), and the economy of Kansas is primarily agricultural. The Flint Hills of eastern Kansas and the high plains of Western Kansas also look nothing like the piney woods of southern Arkansas or Louisiana, or the Appalachian mountains in Tennessee or North Carolina. Kansas is also much drier than any of the south, and I've never heard a southern accent spoken from anyone in Kansas (most people in the state don't seem to have an accent at all).

It should also be noted that the Ozarks extend into parts of Southern Illinois, and the Appalachian foothills of East Central and Southeastern Ohio reminds me of the Ozarks somewhat. I'm really not sure how the Ozarks are "quite Southern." To me the Missouri Ozarks are a mixture of Southern and Midwestern culture. The forests of the Ozarks are not Southern at all at least in most of Missouri, the trees you find there are certainly not. Also, the Ozarks in Arkansas felt different than the Missouri Ozarks for some reason. I couldn't pin the difference down, but it might have to do with the climate which allows the Ozark chinaquapin trees or whatever they are called to grow down there, plus the Southern influence is much stronger around that area, virtually devoid of any Midwestern influence.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ajf131

It should also be noted that the Ozarks extend into parts of Southern Illinois, and the Appalachian foothills of East Central and Southeastern Ohio reminds me of the Ozarks somewhat. I'm really not sure how the Ozarks are "quite Southern." To me the Missouri Ozarks are a mixture of Southern and Midwestern culture. The forests of the Ozarks are not Southern at all at least in most of Missouri, the trees you find there are certainly not. Also, the Ozarks in Arkansas felt different than the Missouri Ozarks for some reason. I couldn't pin the difference down, but it might have to do with the climate which allows the Ozark chinaquapin trees or whatever they are called to grow down there, plus the Southern influence is much stronger around that area, virtually devoid of any Midwestern influence.

One of the big differences that you find in the Arkansas Ozarks are the large concentration of pine forests that are uncommon to Missouri.

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ajf131

It should also be noted that the Ozarks extend into parts of Southern Illinois, and the Appalachian foothills of East Central and Southeastern Ohio reminds me of the Ozarks somewhat. I'm really not sure how the Ozarks are "quite Southern." To me the Missouri Ozarks are a mixture of Southern and Midwestern culture. The forests of the Ozarks are not Southern at all at least in most of Missouri, the trees you find there are certainly not. Also, the Ozarks in Arkansas felt different than the Missouri Ozarks for some reason. I couldn't pin the difference down, but it might have to do with the climate which allows the Ozark chinaquapin trees or whatever they are called to grow down there, plus the Southern influence is much stronger around that area, virtually devoid of any Midwestern influence.

I don't think the Ozarks are southern, but are definitely a mix of Southern and Midwestern culture. To me the Arkansas Ozarks feel much like the Missouri Ozarks for the first county or two south of the state line in terms of landscape, and then it gets much more mountainous in the Boston Mountains. The culture is also much more southern and the accent seems to get thicker and turns into a real Southern accent.

As far as the pine forests go, shortleaf pine once covered a great deal of the Ozarks in Missouri, mainly concentrated around Van Buren, Eminence, and Doniphan, but were all logged off in the latter half of the 19th century. There are still some large stands left (along highway 19 near Round Springs, and we have a few shortleafs on my parent's property). If you would have visited the Ozarks about 150 years ago you'd find extensive stands of pine in both MO and AR, as well as areas of prairie (mainly in MO).

Southern Ohio, as well as Kentucky and Tennessee, remind me of the Ozarks to some degree, but not all the way. The trees in all those areas are much bigger, and they also lack the rocky chert-filled soil common in the Ozarks from what I've seen. The streams I have seen also don't have the signature gravel bars. Its similar...but far from the same.

Regarding the border wars, I was referring to the poster who said Kansas was southern (as it is most definitely not a southern state at all), pointing out that Kansas was never a slave state, and went through a great deal of trouble to remain a free state.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

I don't think the Ozarks are southern, but are definitely a mix of Southern and Midwestern culture. To me the Arkansas Ozarks feel much like the Missouri Ozarks for the first county or two south of the state line in terms of landscape, and then it gets much more mountainous in the Boston Mountains. The culture is also much more southern and the accent seems to get thicker and turns into a real Southern accent.

As far as the pine forests go, shortleaf pine once covered a great deal of the Ozarks in Missouri, mainly concentrated around Van Buren, Eminence, and Doniphan, but were all logged off in the latter half of the 19th century. There are still some large stands left (along highway 19 near Round Springs, and we have a few shortleafs on my parent's property). If you would have visited the Ozarks about 150 years ago you'd find extensive stands of pine in both MO and AR, as well as areas of prairie (mainly in MO).

Southern Ohio, as well as Kentucky and Tennessee, remind me of the Ozarks to some degree, but not all the way. The trees in all those areas are much bigger, and they also lack the rocky chert-filled soil common in the Ozarks from what I've seen. The streams I have seen also don't have the signature gravel bars. Its similar...but far from the same.

Regarding the border wars, I was referring to the poster who said Kansas was southern (as it is most definitely not a southern state at all), pointing out that Kansas was never a slave state, and went through a great deal of trouble to remain a free state.

Forgot to include West Virginia in that arena too with Southern Ohio and Eastern Kentucky. Those to me seem to be the most similar areas in appearance to the Ozarks, along with I guess Tennessee and North Carolina look similar too, although in Tennessee, North Carolina and West Virginia and Kentucky, the hills are MUCH bigger than the Ozarks.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

I don't think the Ozarks are southern, but are definitely a mix of Southern and Midwestern culture. To me the Arkansas Ozarks feel much like the Missouri Ozarks for the first county or two south of the state line in terms of landscape, and then it gets much more mountainous in the Boston Mountains. The culture is also much more southern and the accent seems to get thicker and turns into a real Southern accent.

As far as the pine forests go, shortleaf pine once covered a great deal of the Ozarks in Missouri, mainly concentrated around Van Buren, Eminence, and Doniphan, but were all logged off in the latter half of the 19th century. There are still some large stands left (along highway 19 near Round Springs, and we have a few shortleafs on my parent's property). If you would have visited the Ozarks about 150 years ago you'd find extensive stands of pine in both MO and AR, as well as areas of prairie (mainly in MO).

Southern Ohio, as well as Kentucky and Tennessee, remind me of the Ozarks to some degree, but not all the way. The trees in all those areas are much bigger, and they also lack the rocky chert-filled soil common in the Ozarks from what I've seen. The streams I have seen also don't have the signature gravel bars. Its similar...but far from the same.

Regarding the border wars, I was referring to the poster who said Kansas was southern (as it is most definitely not a southern state at all), pointing out that Kansas was never a slave state, and went through a great deal of trouble to remain a free state.

I agree with the Boston Mountains arena. The Ozarks consist of many different plateaus and I don't think can be generalized in terms of culture because it changes the further north or south you go.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Plains10

One of the big differences that you find in the Arkansas Ozarks are the large concentration of pine forests that are uncommon to Missouri.

That's right!!! Thank you for reminding me of that Plains. Btw, how is New Hampshire treating you? I haven't been to the Arkansas Ozarks in almost ten years and I was about to go into seventh grade and the Camp I was at, Camp Sabra, which is a Jewish camp on the Lake of the Ozarks near Eldon, Missouri, had an expedition in which I think we drove 150 miles south to Silver Dollar City in Branson and then drove further south to camp out in the woods of the Arkansas Ozarks. That was what was different. It seemed very heavily forested and much more impoverished too actually from what I can remember....it felt MUCH different than any part of the Missouri Ozarks I've ever been to.

[nrtntw]

As for me and my family, we are southern. We live in se Missouri and people from Cape Girardeau on north have always made fun of our accents. Plus we have the "Cotton" carnival as that historically was a huge cash crop. We still have plantations. I am just saying that the southern part of Missouri has more in common with Arkansas than central and northern Missouri.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by nrtntw

As for me and my family, we are southern. We live in se Missouri and people from Cape Girardeau on north have always made fun of our accents. Plus we have the "Cotton" carnival as that historically was a huge cash crop. We still have plantations. I am just saying that the southern part of Missouri has more in common with Arkansas than central and northern Missouri.

You must live in Mississippi county, or thereabouts. Folks forget about the extreme Bootheel area, it really is southern. Having lived in Poplar Bluff, and having had relatives there for generations, I totally agree.
BTW, I think peaches from the Campbell area are much better than anything from Georgia!

[Nomadicus]

For my 2¢ worth, I think of MO as mostly midwestern. Having lived there for over a decade, 70's and early 80's, I didn't see much in the way of northern customs or southern customs either. Ice tea was available 12 months of the year and not a lot of my friends new what "grits" where. So it must have been midwestern. The folks as a whole where so friendly. You never seemed to meet a stranger. The climate had 4 seasons. Even where I lived in MI it was considered in the MW. MO was a better place for my family than any place I've lived, including my home in the south. I don't have an axe to grind with anywhere in the USA. I just like the MW and all it has to offer. Great gardening, clean water, beautiful landscapes, and some of the best people I've ever met are calling be back!

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Originally Posted by DocGSD

Growing up in NYC and moving to SW MO a few years ago, I think I gan give an opinion with non-bias.
In my experience, I think that Missouri is by far a midwestern state. Even here in the southern part of the state, I dont notice the southern accent, well since I have a NY accent I do, but it is not the southern slure that you find in the deep south. I think the southern speach certainly picks up when you get mid arkansas and northern Oklahoma. I think that the SE part of the state is definately more southern acting and sounding than the SW.
I also lived in KCMO for a while. I cant really tell a difference between KC and SWMO. The weather here is definately more northern than southern. In that, I agree with ajf131 completely.

I absolutely agree. Missouri is not a Southern state by any measure. Missouri is Midwestern.