Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Kansas City, St. Louis: houses, restaurants, transit)

[DefaultAlias]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Homestore.com: Lawn & Gardening - Climate Zones
Image:Southern American English.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In that case, Default, I agree with what you're saying. Now we are in agreement about Southern Missouri. Here is actually a climatological map of the United States also to further clarify what climatological zones Missouri lies in. As you can see on here, Kentucky, extreme Northern Arkanas, and roughly the Southern halves of Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio have the same gardening characteristics in common with each other. Cities in this zone are St. Louis, Springfield, IL, Indianapolis, Columbus appears to be half in it, Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington, etc. Our climate seems to be best described as a "Middle Climate" I'd say. The vast majority of the south does not share these patterns. Climatologically missouri is roughly half, maybe a little less, between more of a Northern climate and more of a roughly mid climate. Here iis the Southern American English dialect map of Missouri as well. You can clearly tell from this map that Southern speech patterns exist in less than half the state. Most dialect maps will tell you roughly the same as this map. Also, Default, I never disagreed about the Southern quarter of Missouri not being Southern, indeed I think most of it is Dixie. It's most of Southern Missouri being Dixie that I disagree about. You are right, from St. Louis to Cape Giraerdeau to me seems to be a transition zone from the Midwest to the South. THe further south you go, the less Midwest it gets and the more Dixie it gets. By the time you are in the "Southern quarter" of Missouri yes it is unquestionably Dixie, and I don't have a problem with that. People...I'm not afraid of "Southerness," I just don't think it the Dixie element is the dominant one in most areas above the region DefaultAlias is describing as Dixie...which I AGREE WITH! Apologize for the failure to communicate Default.

Glad to see that we're on the same page now. This post deserves a reputation, don't you agree?

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by DefaultAlias

Glad to see that we're on the same page now. This post deserves a reputation, don't you agree?

Depends on what kind of reputation you're talking about lol...if it's good I guess I agree....

[ShadowCaver]

Yes, I will agree w/ such - that taken as a whole, and if forced to choose one or the other, would say that its a Midwestern state [w/ disclaimer that it has flavours of other regions w/in its wondrous borders... ].

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

Yes, I will agree w/ such - that taken as a whole, and if forced to choose one or the other, would say that its a Midwestern state [w/ disclaimer that it has flavours of other regions w/in its wondrous borders... ].

Yea. Definitely.

[DefaultAlias]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Depends on what kind of reputation you're talking about lol...if it's good I guess I agree....

Oh, it's definitely positive props man!

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by DefaultAlias

Oh, it's definitely positive props man!

hehehe, good to know, good to know

[Ozarks21]

I've lived in the State all my life and I consider all of Missouri to be a Southern State. It has to do with my family's history as relates back to their allegiances during the civil war. This was in NW Missouri, home to Jesse James, Quantril and Bill Anderson. These men were noted and notorious Confederates and my family and the communities in the area sympathized with the anti-Union (anti-Jayhawk) leaders. A strong sense of Dixie has been instilled in me as a matter of family history.

Plus, we have great BBQ from KC to the Bootheel. We eat everything fried - including catfish... if that ain't southern, I don't know what is. I think the bootheel is below the Mason-Dixon.(?) and that area is Southern by any definition.

But I don't see being Southern as a question of mere Geography. Florida is a good example. Geographically I consider Missouri to be midwest.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Ozarks21

I've lived in the State all my life and I consider all of Missouri to be a Southern State. It has to do with my family's history as relates back to their allegiances during the civil war. This was in NW Missouri, home to Jesse James, Quantril and Bill Anderson. These men were noted and notorious Confederates and my family and the communities in the area sympathized with the anti-Union (anti-Jayhawk) leaders. A strong sense of Dixie has been instilled in me as a matter of family history.

Plus, we have great BBQ from KC to the Bootheel. We eat everything fried - including catfish... if that ain't southern, I don't know what is. I think the bootheel is below the Mason-Dixon.(?) and that area is Southern by any definition.

But I don't see being Southern as a question of mere Geography. Florida is a good example. Geographically I consider Missouri to be midwest.

I'm not going to say anything except that great barbecue is found elsewhere besides the South and Missouri, and that culturally this state is never dominated by the South until the Southern quarter. THat does not just have to do with geography. It has to do with culture, speech patterns, etc. There is the Old South, and the new South. Missouri was never listed in either, especially not The New South. When you can give me evidence that the northern half of modern Missouri is far more Southern than Midwestern, including KC and St. Louis, then maybe I'll listen. Until then...I think I'll go with what is the accepted definition of the Midwest and South by pretty much every modern source I can find. the transition from Northern to Southern does not even begin until below all of Central Missouri, roughly DefaultAlias' definition. My family is also from Missouri way back before the Civil War, and they were from MExico, Missouri. They fought for the Union as did many they knew. So yes, you may have more of a Southern background, but obviously looking at the numbers who fought for the Union and Confederacy that obviously can't be used as a way to say Missouri was 100% Southern, which I don't think it ever was. Guerilla warfare was common in this state, it was neighbor against neighbor....something found only in border states.

[DefaultAlias]

Originally Posted by Ozarks21

I've lived in the State all my life and I consider all of Missouri to be a Southern State. It has to do with my family's history as relates back to their allegiances during the civil war. This was in NW Missouri, home to Jesse James, Quantril and Bill Anderson. These men were noted and notorious Confederates and my family and the communities in the area sympathized with the anti-Union (anti-Jayhawk) leaders. A strong sense of Dixie has been instilled in me as a matter of family history.

Plus, we have great BBQ from KC to the Bootheel. We eat everything fried - including catfish... if that ain't southern, I don't know what is. I think the bootheel is below the Mason-Dixon.(?) and that area is Southern by any definition.

But I don't see being Southern as a question of mere Geography. Florida is a good example. Geographically I consider Missouri to be midwest.

I beg to differ here. I wouldn't call all of Missoura southern. Sure, the southern half of Missouri begins to take on a Dixie feel but the northern half is unquestionably Midwestern.

Most important thing to remember here is that Missoura is one of those states doesn't really "have" a distinct region because honestly--it's a little bit of both. Like Texas, Oklahoma, Maryland, Florida, etc.

And as far as Florida is concerned I don't care how many New Yorkers settle down there--it's still Dixie. Not as Dixie as Alabama per say, but still Dixie nonetheless.

[jesse78]

I was was born and raised in the St Joseph, MO area which is in the northwest part of the state and can say it is midwestern all the way. I always thought Missouri was like a entirely different state south of KC and St Louis. The culture, and scenery are a lot different.