Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Kansas City, St. Louis: estate, metro area, interior)

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ajf131

I agree with all of your classifications except south of STL. The Upper South is not south of STL...the Upper South IMO is south of Cape Girardeau. South of STL is the just the Midwest and the Ozarks.

The Upper South is characterized by forests, hills, and mountains, like the Cumberland Plateau and Appalachian Mountain areas of Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, North Georgia, and portions of Alabama. The Upper South (or Upland South) and the Deep South are two very different areas, culturally and geographically. Most of the early settlers of the Upper South relied on subsistance farming and lived as semi hunter-gathers to find food, compared to the Deep South which had lots of farming, and plantations. Slavery was also much, much less common in the Upper South due to the poor conditions for agriculture. The Deep South (all of Mississippi, Louisiana, and portions of Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina) is also very flat, and swampy in places, another difference between the two.

The Ozarks of southern Missouri and northern Arkansas much more resemble the Upper South, culturally and geographically, than the area south of Cape Girardeau. The area south of Cape has a lot more in common with the Deep South, and definitely isn't the Upper South. Also, most settlers in the Ozarks came from areas like Kentucky and Tennessee, and brought a lot of their culture with them. IMO, the Ozarks are a mix of the Upper South and Midwestern culture, with the northern portions, like around Jeff City, feeling very Midwestern compared to the southern Ozarks.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

The Upper South is characterized by forests, hills, and mountains, like the Cumberland Plateau and Appalachian Mountain areas of Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, North Georgia, and portions of Alabama. The Upper South (or Upland South) and the Deep South are two very different areas, culturally and geographically. Most of the early settlers of the Upper South relied on subsistance farming and lived as semi hunter-gathers to find food, compared to the Deep South which had lots of farming, and plantations. Slavery was also much, much less common in the Upper South due to the poor conditions for agriculture. The Deep South (all of Mississippi, Louisiana, and portions of Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina) is also very flat, and swampy in places, another difference between the two.

The Ozarks of southern Missouri and northern Arkansas much more resemble the Upper South, culturally and geographically, than the area south of Cape Girardeau. The area south of Cape has a lot more in common with the Deep South, and definitely isn't the Upper South. Also, most settlers in the Ozarks came from areas like Kentucky and Tennessee, and brought a lot of their culture with them. IMO, the Ozarks are a mix of the Upper South and Midwestern culture, with the northern portions, like around Jeff City, feeling very Midwestern compared to the southern Ozarks.

I'm more or less agreeable to that I guess...but the Upper South is NOT directly below STL. That much I am certain of. The people and the culture just south of STL do not even come close to fitting the Upper South. For it to start more truly resembling the Upper South culturally, you need to get at least 100 miles south of St. Louis.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989

This area is somewhat southern. We're pretty much both Midwest and South. Actually, according to Farmer's Almanac we're at the corner of Ohio Valley, Heartland, and Deep South.

I did go to Ryan's in Poplar Bluff and they offer sweet tea. Sometimes restaurants around here will also have Chicken & Dumplings on special.

that doesn't surprise me, I more or less expected that part of Missouri to have strong Southern influences.

[missouri guh314]

Originally Posted by TXDadof1

After just finding out today that I am returning to the Ozarks to raise my son I stopped in to read about Missouri. Since leaving Missouree (I originated from the southern portion), I have made stops in Memphis, TN, Eastern NC, and Dallas-Fort Worth. Here is how MO is divided: Anything north of I-70 (including St. Louis) is Midwestern (influenced by IL, IA, MN, WI, IN), anything North of I-44 and South of I-70 (including KC) is the Great Plains (KS, NE, OK influenced), and anything south of I-44 is the south (TN/AR infuenced).
To prove the formula I offer small to mid-sized example cities: Poplar Bluff, Cape and West Plains- all southern, Nevada, Warrensburg and Jefferson City- Great Plains, look at Kirksville, St Joe and Hannibal and you will see the midwest.
The industry- or lack of, the agriculture, the religions, the food and the people of Missouri all reflect the above mentioned "Zones."
Seriously, Missouri is a wonderful state with lots of regional influences. Missouri is only one of two states in the country that has 8 border states. It also sits in the geographical center of the US. I belive that this allows MO to absorb culture and traditions from all its borders. Missouri truly is a diverse and interesting place to live and I cannot wait to get beck home!

ummm st.louis is lower than KC geographically

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by missouri guh314

ummm st.louis is lower than KC geographically

What is your point? Geographically further north or further south by a hair does not dictate cultural differences, especially when KC is almost 4 hours west of St. Louis. I also have to disagree with anything south of I-44 being the south, there is Midwestern influence in Missouri until you are very close to Arkansas. You cannot divide a state based on highways. Anything north of I-44 and south of I-70 being the great plains is bogus as well. THe Great Plains are west of Missouri...Missouri is not in the Great Plains at all. Missouri is an overall Midwestern state. The people of Southern Missouri for the most part are just like the people of Southern Illinois.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

The Upper South is characterized by forests, hills, and mountains, like the Cumberland Plateau and Appalachian Mountain areas of Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, North Georgia, and portions of Alabama. The Upper South (or Upland South) and the Deep South are two very different areas, culturally and geographically. Most of the early settlers of the Upper South relied on subsistance farming and lived as semi hunter-gathers to find food, compared to the Deep South which had lots of farming, and plantations. Slavery was also much, much less common in the Upper South due to the poor conditions for agriculture. The Deep South (all of Mississippi, Louisiana, and portions of Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina) is also very flat, and swampy in places, another difference between the two.

The Ozarks of southern Missouri and northern Arkansas much more resemble the Upper South, culturally and geographically, than the area south of Cape Girardeau. The area south of Cape has a lot more in common with the Deep South, and definitely isn't the Upper South. Also, most settlers in the Ozarks came from areas like Kentucky and Tennessee, and brought a lot of their culture with them. IMO, the Ozarks are a mix of the Upper South and Midwestern culture, with the northern portions, like around Jeff City, feeling very Midwestern compared to the southern Ozarks.

Yes the area south of Cape Girardeau is the Upper South. The Upper South is not entirely classifiable based on landscapes. You are going by one strict definition. The Deep South does not begin until you are below Memphis. Arkansas is the Upper South. The Ozarks while they may geographically resemble the Upper South, do not share the culture of the Upper South. They have strong Midwestern influences. Joplin and Springfield are nowhere near as southern as a place like Louisville...they are overall Midwestern areas. Geographic landcapes alone are not enough to say a place is the Upper South. I have been to the mountains of West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee, and with all honesty I have to say that the Ozarks have a distinctly different feel to them and don't feel as Southern, nor do their inhabitants really act Southern. And fyi...Appalachia extends into the Deep South as well, covering Georgia and Alabama.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ajf131

What is your point? Geographically further north or further south by a hair does not dictate cultural differences, especially when KC is almost 4 hours west of St. Louis. I also have to disagree with anything south of I-44 being the south, there is Midwestern influence in Missouri until you are very close to Arkansas. You cannot divide a state based on highways. Anything north of I-44 and south of I-70 being the great plains is bogus as well. THe Great Plains are west of Missouri...Missouri is not in the Great Plains at all. Missouri is an overall Midwestern state. The people of Southern Missouri for the most part are just like the people of Southern Illinois.

Northwest MO is in the Plains category for sure. Areas to the east of this portion of MO have a wetter climate and more trees.

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Yes the area south of Cape Girardeau is the Upper South. The Upper South is not entirely classifiable based on landscapes. You are going by one strict definition. The Deep South does not begin until you are below Memphis. Arkansas is the Upper South. The Ozarks while they may geographically resemble the Upper South, do not share the culture of the Upper South. They have strong Midwestern influences. Joplin and Springfield are nowhere near as southern as a place like Louisville...they are overall Midwestern areas. Geographic landcapes alone are not enough to say a place is the Upper South. I have been to the mountains of West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee, and with all honesty I have to say that the Ozarks have a distinctly different feel to them and don't feel as Southern, nor do their inhabitants really act Southern. And fyi...Appalachia extends into the Deep South as well, covering Georgia and Alabama.

I do agree that the Ozarks have a different feel than WV, KY, and TN. It is hard to put a finger on the exact differences, but they are there. The Ozarks tend to get less rainfall and have smaller trees, and you don't have any coal mining in the Ozarks. Also, most people in the Ozarks don't self-identity as being Southern, why in WV, KY, and TN they do. Most of the southern influence on the Ozarks is that of the Upper South, however, although the area is still fairly Midwestern (and gets more so as you travel north).

The Ozarks and Ouachita Mountains in Arkansas are easily the upper south, but the whole state isn't. About half the state is low-lying and flat, and characterized by rice farms or thick piney woods with spanish moss. The area around Texarkana and the rest of southern Arkansas are the deep south, especially considering this area is surrounded by Louisiana and Mississippi, both states which are soldily in the deep south. Also, the Delta region of Mississippi extends across the river into Arkansas.

Yes, the Appalachian Mountains do extend into portions of Georgia, Alabama, and even South Carolina, but those portions of the state have a much different character than the other portions, as they are more of the Upper South, while the flatter areas are more like the Deep South.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

I do agree that the Ozarks have a different feel than WV, KY, and TN. It is hard to put a finger on the exact differences, but they are there. The Ozarks tend to get less rainfall and have smaller trees, and you don't have any coal mining in the Ozarks. Also, most people in the Ozarks don't self-identity as being Southern, why in WV, KY, and TN they do. Most of the southern influence on the Ozarks is that of the Upper South, however, although the area is still fairly Midwestern (and gets more so as you travel north).

The Ozarks and Ouachita Mountains in Arkansas are easily the upper south, but the whole state isn't. About half the state is low-lying and flat, and characterized by rice farms or thick piney woods with spanish moss. The area around Texarkana and the rest of southern Arkansas are the deep south, especially considering this area is surrounded by Louisiana and Mississippi, both states which are soldily in the deep south. Also, the Delta region of Mississippi extends across the river into Arkansas.

Yes, the Appalachian Mountains do extend into portions of Georgia, Alabama, and even South Carolina, but those portions of the state have a much different character than the other portions, as they are more of the Upper South, while the flatter areas are more like the Deep South.

Now we're on the same page. Very well said!

[GetmeoutofAR]

Im firmly beleive that anything north of I-44 is in the midwest and anything south is in the south. This is due to the way the weather systems run