Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Kansas City, St. Louis: neighborhoods, manufacturing, transportation)

[solytaire]

Im sorry but, during my brief two year stint in SW Mo, Springfield didnt even seem remotely southern to me. Very bland accents, small african american population, not particularly southern food, frigid winters etc...Cool little town but I dont know, aside from being hyper religious, it just didnt seem southern to me at all...Oddly enough though, just across the state line in Northern Arkansas, the atmosphere takes a on a sharply more Southern feel I thought.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by solytaire

Im sorry but, during my brief two year stint in SW Mo, Springfield didnt even seem remotely southern to me. Very bland accents, small african american population, not particularly southern food, frigid winters etc...Cool little town but I dont know, aside from being hyper religious, it just didnt seem southern to me at all...Oddly enough though, just across the state line in Northern Arkansas, the atmosphere takes a on a sharply more Southern feel I thought.

My sentiments exactly. It's amazing how things change once you cross into Arkansas. Even Monett, Missouri is not Southern feeling...it feels Midwestern, and in fact the atmosphere looks Midwestern too..lots of corn is grown around that area and it is open prairie and flat. Southwest Missouri doesn't really feel southern to me. Matt Blunt and Brad Pitt are both from Springfield, Missouri, but neither one speaks with an accent.

[GetmeoutofAR]

so Northwest Arkansas then is automatically southern...funny how that works

[OA 5599]

Its also amazing how quickly the accent changes when you cross into Arkansas. You'll hear a real southern accent just across the state line (even between Thayer, MO and Mammoth Spring, AR, which are 2 miles apart!). A lot of people in the Missouri Ozarks definitely do have a accent, but its not a southern accent, more of a Midwestern drawl, with some distinctive Ozark twang thrown in. Although I grew up in the Ozarks, I have no accent whatsoever besides a typical American one, and a lot of my friends from the Ozarks don't either.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

Its also amazing how quickly the accent changes when you cross into Arkansas. You'll hear a real southern accent just across the state line (even between Thayer, MO and Mammoth Spring, AR, which are 2 miles apart!). A lot of people in the Missouri Ozarks definitely do have a accent, but its not a southern accent, more of a Midwestern drawl, with some distinctive Ozark twang thrown in. Although I grew up in the Ozarks, I have no accent whatsoever besides a typical American one, and a lot of my friends from the Ozarks don't either.

Absolutely no contest whatsoever to this on my part. Right on the money.

[GetmeoutofAR]

Ok...I give in, but from what i've heard (never been there) SE Missouri is as southern as can be.

[solytaire]

Originally Posted by GetmeoutofAR

Ok...I give in, but from what i've heard (never been there) SE Missouri is as southern as can be.

I wasnt trying to pile on or anything...I was just speaking from my personal experience/assessment. SW Mo may be southern, who knows? Im just saying it didnt feel southern to me while I was there. I could be wrong though because after all I am not a SW Mo native.

Now SE Missouri (bootheel)? I could very well see the argument being made for it being somewhat southern.

[GetmeoutofAR]

well the reason im interested in all this is because I've always been facinated as to where the boundaries of the north and south are...not just in Missouri but in other states as well....If you argue that people are the same no matter where they are then this topic wouldnt interest you. I beleive the culture changes mile by mile by mile and that just a 30 mile difference can indeed affect a peoples way of thinking and ideology towards life. Also, I was born in Missouri and raised in Missouri and Arkansas and have never quite knew where there boundaries were. So it may be more of a personal thing than anything else

[missouri guh314]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Check maps of Southern dialect and agriculture as well as surveys done by people who consider themselves Southerners and Midwesterners, and you'll find this to be far from the case. Southern culture does not start south of Interstate 44...Springfield and Joplin to Cape Girardeau and maybe areas slightly to the north extending to the Ohio River valley are the cultural boundaries of the South.

well some of my friends and teachers have southern accents

[RangerDuke08]

Originally Posted by ajf131

This is the most ridiculous way of classifying the south I've ever seen, and doesn't coincide with cultural boundaries nor does it coincide with agricultural life or settlement patterns. The Ozarks are HALF in the Midwest, half in the South. They retain many Midwestern characteristics, such as the trees and tallgrass prairie plus the many dairy farms and while they are not as numerous as in the Interior Plains, cornfields as well. In addition, the Southern accent is present in less than 1/3 of the Ozarks in Missouri. Southern Illinois and all of Southern Missouri normally see at least 10 inches of snow a year...again, that is above what most of Kentucky or any of the Upper South for that matter sees. Lexington is most certainly in the South...the way of life and the speech patterns are unquestionably Southern. Southern Illinois and Southern Missouri are cultural melting pots. The Ozarks contain elements of both the Midwest and the South.

Great post, the thread is overwhelmingly long, but I had to intrude for a bit as there are seperate categories of classification that many seem to comix together - geographical, social and historical. Historically Missouri and Kentucky did not secede from the Union although they both did fight several battles for and against the Union including that of the Governor of Missouri then who was pro-Southern and trained a unit of confederate troops. As the context is of Missouri today we no longer speak historically but that of geographical and social. Socially with population concentrated in that of KC/STL and it's suburbs it is more midwestern as even geographically and socially speaking Southern Missouri plays a smaller part than that of the Central Missouri. It is the case of Kentucky as well, there is a good influence of the midwest and the Rust Belt runs into Lexington however the generally population and consensus overwhelmingly considers themselves Southern, thus as Southern is as Southern does, Kentucky would be more Southern today and Missouri certainly more Midwestern, no question about that, I think the question should be does Missouri belong to that of the plains/food belt midwest such as Kansas or the rust belt/uppermidwest such as Illinois that would be an interesting discussion.