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View Poll Results: After both fighters are on the mat for 20 seconds, it should be....
Broken up by the ref... 3 33.33%
Allowed to continue.... 6 66.67%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-19-2010, 06:59 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,176,827 times
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No way.

Go watch the George Sotiropoulos vs. Joe Stevenson fight and tell me they should be stopping the fight after 20 seconds on the mat.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:17 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,862,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
I couldn't understand why this gets so much attention as it did the Vancouver, when they stopped by here on Sat. night.....
I could watch it, maybe, a little more and like this "sport", if, after 20 seconds on the mat, unless a guy is finishing someone off, clearly, they have to break it up and stand up again......
it's like watching guys having sex, when they're rolling on the mat for that long...just doesn't do it for me.....
now if 2 women, want to do that......lol.
Basketball has the 24 second shot clock, MMA and UFC should have a 20 second (or maybe even 15 second rule).....
No, it's this type of crap thats killing the ground game in judo (particuarly in the US.)
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:19 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Also, what other "sport" is choking legal? Come on....
Judo, jiujitsu, combat sambo...
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:33 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveycrockettino View Post
Again, you start to insult me. Calling me stupid right after you spell apologists wrong.

Now you're calling me an idiot. More insults.
How is wrestling "the most dominant form of martial art"? Where do you come up with that BS?

I'm actually in shape, so I'm not 5'9" 210! I'm 6' and I box as a welterweight (fighting weight 147, walking around weight around 155) and I think I could KO you just like Ray Mercer KOd the much heavier Tim Sylvia because I'm quick on my feet, my hands are incredibly fast and powerful (boxers, even the weakest ones, can KO anyone with MMA gloves if they get one good punch in) and if you go for my legs, I can just sidestep and throw a punch as you're going down.


??? When did I say that?
Actually 'bjj' is the dominant martial art in mma. It just happens wrestling is the most popular in the US. 99% of the time a pure striker will loose to a pure grappler/mma guy. I've a close friend who I train K1 with- he mixes boxing with muay thai, but has no grappling game. He has yet to win a fight with me under mma rules, even though he's far better at stand up than I am. Why? Because my base is in judo.

Last edited by archineer; 06-25-2010 at 07:43 AM..
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:51 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,046,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
Actually 'bjj' is the dominant martial art in mma. It just happens wrestling is the most popular in the US. 99% of the time a pure striker will loose to a pure grappler/mma guy. I've a close friend who I train K1 with- he mixes boxing with muay thai and he has yet to win a fight with me under mma rules, even though he's far better at stand up than I am. Why? Because my base is in judo.

i dont agree, wrestling is the #1 base and most dominant martial art in mma. how many times has a pure BJJ guy been completely dominated by pure wrestlers. IE frank mir with lesnar. wrestlers have better body position, and more control on the ground. give an ok wrestler submission defense and only the best bjj guys might be able to submit him. same for takedowns, a wrestler has better takedowns and TD defense to neutralize other forms of MA.

i can only name 4 guys in MMA off hand who dominate and started with bjj. bj penn, shinya aoki, nick diaz, and g malindez. of these guys, bj started boxing and bjj at the same time, and diaz/malindez both trained bjj 1st but never dominated until they had something else in addition.
the builk of the better fighters are guys who wrestle 1st really. hughes, randy, brock, carwin, cain v, GSP, shields, hendo, rashad...... the list goes on. the wrestler has a better base to build on then any other MA. how many guys have just wrestling and do/did nothing but take someone down and pound on their face? randy and matt hughes made HOF careers off of that.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:59 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,862,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
i dont agree, wrestling is the #1 base and most dominant martial art in mma. how many times has a pure BJJ guy been completely dominated by pure wrestlers. IE frank mir with lesnar. wrestlers have better body position, and more control on the ground. give an ok wrestler submission defense and only the best bjj guys might be able to submit him. same for takedowns, a wrestler has better takedowns and TD defense to neutralize other forms of MA.

i can only name 4 guys in MMA off hand who dominate and started with bjj. bj penn, shinya aoki, nick diaz, and g malindez. of these guys, bj started boxing and bjj at the same time, and diaz/malindez both trained bjj 1st but never dominated until they had something else in addition.
the builk of the better fighters are guys who wrestle 1st really. hughes, randy, brock, carwin, cain v, GSP, shields, hendo, rashad...... the list goes on. the wrestler has a better base to build on then any other MA. how many guys have just wrestling and do/did nothing but take someone down and pound on their face? randy and matt hughes made HOF careers off of that.
Fair enough. Though wrestling is the most popular grappling art in the US, so you'd expect most US fighters to have a base in wrestling. In the UK most the mma guys I train with seem to mix muay thai/bjj, wrestling is taught but not really emphasised. Alot of the guys I spar with have a background in judo as well though, judo being the most popular grappling art over here.

edit: I'll admit I don't watch much UFC/MMA, I just sometimes train with mma guys.

Last edited by archineer; 06-25-2010 at 08:20 AM..
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:16 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,176,827 times
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I think it's wrestling as well, a quick perusal of the sherdog rankings show most weight classes pretty heavy in wrestlers. That said it's no longer such a black & white, guys like Shields and GSP are excellent BJJ practitioners as well and wrestlers at the very least must have some defensive BJJ skills to get anywhere in MMA.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,046,600 times
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yeah i can see wrestling not being a big part of mma in europe, there are a ton of judoka and kickboxers out there. even boxing is not very popular. (heaven forbid)

the thing i see euro fighters missing are the takedown defenses that wrestling offers. while i realize that gsp is a freak wrestler (and he didnt start wrestling until later on in his career) this point really showed in the hardy fight.

shields and gsp both are black belts in bjj, but IMO shields is very good, gsp not so much. shields got his from cesar gracie and is legit, gsp IMO is more a ceremonial black belt. dont get me wrong gsp has nasty bjj but he is not on the level of other black belts. once again the hardy fight showed he is not a solid as he should be as a BB. (he also went renzo and asked "what was i doing wrong why would my subs not work")
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Tempe
1,832 posts, read 5,753,748 times
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wrestling is only dominate because the cage and the rules in the UFC benefit a wrestler. If they allowed knees to grounded apponents then wrestlers whould have to alter their game to avoid them. We need stomps and soccer kicks to.
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:49 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 5,255,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocoAZnative View Post
wrestling is only dominate because the cage and the rules in the UFC benefit a wrestler. If they allowed knees to grounded apponents then wrestlers whould have to alter their game to avoid them. We need stomps and soccer kicks to.
wrong. if that is what you believe, then youre missing the point - no offense. i really dont see what knees to a downed opponent have to do with anything, or how the rule that's in place benifits wrestlers.
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