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Old 06-08-2011, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,360 posts, read 3,485,714 times
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As I sit here watching 'mixed martial arts' fighters tonight...oddly enough boxing seems to be the most effective style of fighting...mixed in with a kick here and a kick there...

It seems to be boxing, then wrestling...but more and more, the boxing style seems to dominate all matches...

The matches, at least amongst the light weights, just seem to be boxing matches...
Maybe boxing is now getting it's due respect...it just seems to be the prefered method of defence...at least while standing...
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: spring tx
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ok so while every mma fighter trains boxing, the bulk of them train muay thai but it is 100% without a doubt wrestling that is most prevalent. at least among the top tier fighters. boxing will only get you so far in a MMA fight. the fighters are not throwing a lot of kicks for fear of a take down, thus it turns into an ugly kick boxing match with more boxing and less kicks. it is wrestling that makes mma turn into a kick boxing match, both wrestling defense or the fear of a wrestler.

The Ultimate Fighter 13 Finale winner Clay Guida: Wrestling wins championships | MMAjunkie.com

a fighters point of view from this weekend where clay guida smothered pettis for an ugly decision win.
pettis is both a dynamic striker and a decent bjj guy but guidas wrestling dominated and neutralized both.
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
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After watching this fighting stuff...I realize now that text book karate or judo, is most effective when your oppenent is 'static'...standing still, or is clueless about fighting...

But in real life, hardly ever does the one your squared off with just conviently stand still for you to set them up in some text book manuever...

I realize now it's movement and quickness that gives you much advantage...
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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ok so you already said all that in another thread, i didnt bother to reply before because its just a ridiculous statement. judo especially is a very good street defense system, much like jiu jitsu. if a trained judoka gets any grips on you in a street fight your going flying. the entire point of judo is to use a persons size, movement and momentum against him. just picking up somebody and throwing them while they stand still is actually harder then when the person is active.

yes quickness is an advantage, it is in any sport or fight, street fight or in a ring/cage with rules and a ref but just having quickness and movement isnt going to get you anywhere, you have to have some semblance of technique. get in a street fight with a guy who has nothing but is quick and moves around a lot is fine with me, i know my technique will win, i have seen it, and done it.

about 5-6 years ago i was in a parking lot of a restaurant with my wife and son walking to the car. some guy threw his 1/2 empty beer bottle and it hit my wifes car. i went and picked it up, asked if it was his and dumped the 1/2 on his car. in hind site, with my wife and son there this was not a good idea as who knows what could have happened. he came at me running, and slowed up as he got closer and took a swing, i ducked the punch, spun him around, took his back and choked him unconscious. the "fight" lasted less then 30 seconds. i laid him down in the parking lot, and asked his buddy if he was next or if he wanted to come take his friend home. he woke him up, put him in their car and left. his speed and movement was the deciding factor of the "fight". i used his momentum, changed his direction into my advantage and it was over without a single strike landing from him, or being thrown from me.

while it looks silly, this is a real karate trained person in a real street fight with an active moving opponent.

YouTube - ‪Don't Meesed With A Kid Who Does This‬‏

or this one,

YouTube - ‪pimp knocked out by karate instructor‬‏
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
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The second video was kool and merciful...the instructer simply hit him in the neck...there's a nerve there...that stuns the victim or assailant...it's actually a mercifully manavuer...and prevents further 'damage'...

Like knocking someone out, without hurting them...I learned about those 'points' a few years ago...and they do hurt and imobilize, when struck properly...

Expecially against an untrained person who leaves themselves wide open like that pimp...

Question...

I suppose manuvers like that aren't allowed in Sport fighting...or it must be that both opponents are two well trained to allow that kind of hit on them...
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
2,700 posts, read 1,917,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
As I sit here watching 'mixed martial arts' fighters tonight...oddly enough boxing seems to be the most effective style of fighting...mixed in with a kick here and a kick there...

It seems to be boxing, then wrestling...but more and more, the boxing style seems to dominate all matches...

The matches, at least amongst the light weights, just seem to be boxing matches...
Maybe boxing is now getting it's due respect...it just seems to be the prefered method of defence...at least while standing...
I don't know why this is in modern mma, but i've found grappling to be more effective in the ring/cage. Nine times out of ten i've no trouble taking the fight to the floor if I wish.

It may be that promoters wish to put on an entertaining show and ask fighters to keep it 'standing up', or possibly the top guys have better takedown defence than the guys I spar with.
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:30 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
2,700 posts, read 1,917,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
After watching this fighting stuff...I realize now that text book karate or judo, is most effective when your oppenent is 'static'...standing still, or is clueless about fighting...

But in real life, hardly ever does the one your squared off with just conviently stand still for you to set them up in some text book manuever...

I realize now it's movement and quickness that gives you much advantage...
Text book judo works fine. The two street fights i've been in so far were finished with a textbook morote seoi nage (broke the guys ankle on a heating pipe and I was suspended from school) and Kata Guruma (performed from my knees, the old classical method.) I was still a yellow belt when I did both of these. In mma situations no-gi gripping takes a bit of getting used to but most of it still works perfectly well.

Also you know that brazillian jiu-jitsu is nothing more than newaza heavy judo right? We jokingly call it 'cripple judo'.


YouTube - ‪MOROTE SEOI NAGE COMPILATION‬‏

Morote seoi nage



YouTube - ‪kata guruma‬‏

Kata Guruma
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,360 posts, read 3,485,714 times
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all I'm saying is it seems the guys in UFC, can enter the ring with any style they want...but no matter what styles they know...they all seem to end up boxing or wrestling...

Also...I saw a 'kickboxing' match tonight for the first time in a long time...

Not really a recognized 'catigory' of fighting...

The fighting thing is confusing...it seems only when to people are using the same style, do text book results occur...but when you have one guy bouncing around like a boxer...and another guy using all of or one of the styles above...the outcome seems very uncertain...

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Old 06-13-2011, 09:30 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
2,700 posts, read 1,917,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
all I'm saying is it seems the guys in UFC, can enter the ring with any style they want...but no matter what styles they know...they all seem to end up boxing or wrestling...

Also...I saw a 'kickboxing' match tonight for the first time in a long time...

Not really a recognized 'catigory' of fighting...

The fighting thing is confusing...it seems only when to people are using the same style, do text book results occur...but when you have one guy bouncing around like a boxer...and another guy using all of or one of the styles above...the outcome seems very uncertain...
Well yeah, boxing + wrestling = mma. The reasons are simple. As has been explained before kicks/knees are kept to a minimum to avoid the take down however what you see isn't straight boxing, and once on the floor the brute force of the wrestler will overcome someone just trained in BJJ. Pure wrestling (unless its sub wrestling) won't get you far though as you need to be able to defend and apply subs. However grappling is grappling so if you look across the grappling styles you see the same techniques used over and over, saying a double leg is a wrestling technique and an armbar is jiu jitsu is naive, its the brute force and conditioning of the wrestlers that give them the edge rather than unique technique.

Now for your second point, if a pure boxer were to step into the mma ring he wouldn't last five minutes (this has been proven time after time) mma and boxing are different things, you can't enter mma without a knowledge of grappling and expect to win.

It sounds like you're just a boxing apologist to me.
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,360 posts, read 3,485,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
Well yeah, boxing + wrestling = mma. The reasons are simple. As has been explained before kicks/knees are kept to a minimum to avoid the take down however what you see isn't straight boxing, and once on the floor the brute force of the wrestler will overcome someone just trained in BJJ. Pure wrestling (unless its sub wrestling) won't get you far though as you need to be able to defend and apply subs. However grappling is grappling so if you look across the grappling styles you see the same techniques used over and over, saying a double leg is a wrestling technique and an armbar is jiu jitsu is naive, its the brute force and conditioning of the wrestlers that give them the edge rather than unique technique.

Now for your second point, if a pure boxer were to step into the mma ring he wouldn't last five minutes (this has been proven time after time) mma and boxing are different things, you can't enter mma without a knowledge of grappling and expect to win.

It sounds like you're just a boxing apologist to me.
But I've seen guys or opponents go down hard...get knocked out...with boxing...in all those mixed martial arts fights...

I never see people use the moves I learned in Karate class long ago...or the blocks...

It seems those only work when your fighting some dude off the street who's drunk...

Not sure if I've ever seen anyone knocked out by a kick to the head either...

Seems only choke holds and a right hook, are what knock people out...

And also I think in ring fighting...there's many bone breaking techniques that are banned or not allowed...for obvious reasons...

So I think as a result, many of the fighters are forced into the most 'basic' of whatever their art form is...

I would like to see to UFC guys just use standard Karate...

Also, I think Steven Sigals style would be rendered useless in the ring...
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