UFC 141 - Reem vs. Brock

[cool rob]

Originally Posted by rigas

i like how you brought up kimbo and tried to imply that mma sucks. thats good stuff.

brock is a freak, dude was a national champion wrestler, made an nfl football roster, before joining the mma ranks and become a short lived champ. bottom line, brock accomplished a ton in a short period of time and that cant be taken away from him because he lost to a couple of people with more experience and training.

on a side note, kimbo is looking pretty decent with his boxing career. couple quick KOs and a UD. not bad for a 37 yr old with a couple yrs training.

Hahahah, dude don't get me wrong-

I love MMA, however let's be honest, their is no way that a Brock Lesnar, Kimbo slice, or a few other jokers I could name have any business being legitimate fighters, in any sports genre-

If James Toney was a little more well liked by fans, trust me he would not have gotten thrown in the ring with Randy Coutoure in his first outing. They would have groomed him with a few C class bums until he built up a buzz, then ***WAMMO*** he is easily knocked out cold by someone with "more talent"-

Brock, whom was a product of the UFC/WWE hype machine, similar to Kimbo UFC/Interweb hype machine give a serious black eye to the sport, right or wrong?

[Time and Space]

black eye to some, revenue to others....

[rigas]

I don't agree on a few things. Brock is a great athlete and in mma had the base (wrestling) to dominate. I would be willing to bet that had Brock started in mma 10 yrs sooner he would be all but unbeatable. I think his body type would not allow him to be a boxer or kick boxer but his wrestling base with more time training stand up, and getting hit the dude would be ridiculous. This is the problem with mma, it is so young that we really have not or are just starting to see those who have trained mma from the get go. Guys like rory McDonald. Not Bjj, not boxing, not wrestling, or muay Thai but all of them evenly.
Kimbo was not really a UFC hype but a strikeforce hype. A company that needed every name, selling point and $$$ it could get. Dana told kimbo he would never make it, gave him a shot and made some money off the guy before sending him on his way battered and bruised.

[EvocatusCenturion]

Originally Posted by rigas

the biggest argument i have for this is the fact that brock hung with the best (to an extent) with little to no training what so ever. in 2007 he took his 1st fight with less then 6 months training, and in 2011 he took his last. thats 4 years with 2 (TWO) years missed to illness and injury. brock took the ufc heavyweight belt with less then 3 years total training and nearly died at least once do to illness. im not a brock fan but people seem to take a ton of his credit away from him.

and he DESTROYED mir in both fights after getting screwed by the ref in the 1st he got knee bared showing a classic beginners mistake. he also took the best carwin (one of my fav fighters) had for an entire round, NOBODY, has ever taken those shots from shane and came out of the round.

instead of kicking the guy while he is down, give the guy credit, with little to no training the guy did hang with the best, and beat some of them too.

Brock had his college years training wrestling. So he was not that inexperienced in facets of MMA. Brock also has been working out almost his entire life and ended up being bigger than most people with a strength advantage.

What Brock came in with is like what CroCop came into MMA with his his kickboxing.

Brock was also gifted a title shot, he didn't have to run a gauntlet to get there. If Big Nog where to have fought Randy on moments notice to become champion Big Nog would have been champion.

[rigas]

Originally Posted by EvocatusCenturion

Brock had his college years training wrestling. So he was not that inexperienced in facets of MMA. Brock also has been working out almost his entire life and ended up being bigger than most people with a strength advantage.

wrestling is only a single facet of mma, and the fact that he has only trained in some boxing (he didnt do any kick boxing/thai boxing that i could see), and a little jiu jitsu for a couple of years was very evident. it was evident in his sub loss to mir, and every time he got punched in the face or threw a haymaker.

What Brock came in with is like what CroCop came into MMA with his his kickboxing.

crocop was the perfect striker for mma. he had nasty hands and feet and great takedown defense. on top of that, crocop came in to mma at a different time. he came in at a time where guys could get away with a single discipline as the sport was in the middle of its largest transformation. when he came into mma he trained very hard to keep the fight where he wanted it, on his feet. brock on the other hand never learned how to mix his martial arts.

Brock was also gifted a title shot, he didn't have to run a gauntlet to get there. If Big Nog where to have fought Randy on moments notice to become champion Big Nog would have been champion.

what gauntlet? the fact that randy couture at 92 yrs old was the champ is all the proof you need to know that there was no heavy division. JDS and cain neither one came into the ufc until after brock already faced mir. who else was there? gonzaga? tim sylvia? steffan struve? brock came in and made the heavy weight division which is more of a shot at the state of the division more then a shot at brocks ability.

im in black

[Mike_by_Cedar]

To me, Brock was just a publicity stunt. Now that he's gone who's going to be the next golden boy? That should be the important question. The heavyweight division needs some more new blood.

On a side note I am sick of hearing what Dana White has to say... about anything, ever. Just shut your mouth and run the company.

[rigas]

from dana/brock

“I think Brock’s done. The conversations I’ve had with Brock Lesnar since that fight, all indications point to it’s over. This isn’t baseball man, half in, half out, you can go out and party the night before and then play a game. These guys have to be 100-percent into this mentally, physically, emotionally… Here’s what Brock said to me, he said ‘I’ll tell you what after my surgery from diverticulitis, this last surgery I had, I have never felt so good in my life’. He said ‘I’ve had the best camp I’ve ever had, no injuries, I was in great shape, all the things that could go right, went right, that guy is just that much better than me and it’s time for me to retire’.”

[slackjaw]

Originally Posted by Mike_by_Cedar

The heavyweight division needs some more new blood.

I think even without Brock the UFC heavyweight division has more talented heavyweights than it has ever had.

Dos Santos
Velasquez
Overeem
Mir
Werdum
Carwin
Silva

Add to that the constant rumors about Barnett and there are tons of great potential matchups.

[Time and Space]

Originally Posted by rigas

from dana/brock

I really liked the quote you had of Brock saying 'the guy is just that much better than me'...

It shows a lot of humility on his part to say that, and not make excuses...

Pay wise...I wonder how he made out over his run, as far as revenue, or money earned...

Compared to WCW glam wrestling...I wonder which performance sport yields it's participant more money, or a bigger pay check, in the end?

[James420]

Since Brock made his return to the WWE tonight, I'd say he can make alot more in the WWE than in the UFC, heck Mayweather got like 10 or 15 million for Wrestlemania a few years ago. It seems though he isn't happy for long, he left the WWE the first time after a few years, then tried football, then MMA now back to the WWE.

The UFC made a ton of money off of Brock and had some of their best buy rates when Lesnar was on the card, so he made others some money as well, of course he had name recognition when he went to the UFC so that helped.

I'd expect Lesnar not to have a full time schedule in anything he does, he likes to hunt and who wants to be on the road 300 days a year like the WWE guys are?