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Old 03-18-2014, 01:41 PM
 
390 posts, read 503,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky4life View Post
a young Chuck Norris or Micky Rourke would end the life of Steven Seagal in a real fight.

The current, old ass Chuck Norris and the plastic surgery nighmare, Micky Rourke can whoop the crap out of the giant, fat ass Seagal right now. Chuk Norris is also a Black belt in BJJ for many years now.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:25 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,176,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSone View Post
The current, old ass Chuck Norris and the plastic surgery nighmare, Micky Rourke can whoop the crap out of the giant, fat ass Seagal right now. Chuk Norris is also a Black belt in BJJ for many years now.
Chuck was legit

Yeah, people always used to argue about the whole Bruce lee VS Chuck Norris in real life thing. When chuck Norris was asked who would have won in real life in an interview, he said "Bruce was an actor and I was a professional fighter." I see that as chuck being a humble guy, but still throwing it out there that he would have beat the snot out of the much smaller Bruce Lee, that was never an actual competitive athlete.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:33 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,046,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky4life View Post
Chuck was legit

Yeah, people always used to argue about the whole Bruce lee VS Chuck Norris in real life thing. When chuck Norris was asked who would have won in real life in an interview, he said "Bruce was an actor and I was a professional fighter." I see that as chuck being a humble guy, but still throwing it out there that he would have beat the snot out of the much smaller Bruce Lee, that was never an actual competitive athlete.
yup.
bruce got all the love, he was an innovator, and JKD is great stuff. he was one of if not THE 1st to use protien shakes, supplements and the like. he was home making things like that, improving on his fitness constantly. he was a great athlete, with speed, strength, and power but in the end, chuck had nearly as much athleticism, was stronger, and bigger.

bruce learned and absorbed so much from so many places, but chuck went to great length to learn from the best he could find.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
yup. he was one of if not THE 1st to use protien shakes, supplements and the like.
I'm pretty sure you were old enough to see all of this as it happened right oldtimer?
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:16 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 2,307,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninAmok View Post
That wasn't a knockout , it was a CHOKEOUT and it was Judo Gene Lebell and Gene choked him out to the point that Seagal crapped his pants..literally.

And it was all the result of Seagals big mouth , and Seagal has ducked a couple of other folks in the H'Wood stunt community and martial arts circles surrounding it , Bob Wall being another one he ducked.
Gene Lebell has a bit of a reputation as a snake-oil salesman, so I wouldn't necessarily buy this story at face value. And the people that supposedly witnessed this 'choke-out' may be selling snake oil. Bottom line is nobody here was there that day, so nobody knows if this happened or not. And although I'm no Seagal fan per se, I can't understand why it's so popular to trash the guy. He's done more in his life than probably most or all the people on this forum, so there you go.

And a guy with Seagal's martial arts background is not a pushover. You don't reach his level of proficiency and not know how to fight. Who cares if he can't beat UFC champions or hasn't competed in 'real fights'; he can still kick ass!
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:27 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 2,307,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
It seems you don't know a lot about the combat applications of Aikido, and about the massive differences between the SPORT of MMA and the MARTIAL ART of Aikijujutsu. Two very different beasts.
Exactly! People rag on Seagal because they see him in his demo videos doing moves with fellow Aikidokas at half-speed and surmise that Seagal is a joke. His demos are demonstrations; the participants aren't trying to harm or maim each other. And his participants are trained to fall properly, so everything looks fake and choreographed. But the moves are real. And it would be asinine to assume Seagal would just patty-cake you and play slap-slap if you came at him with bad intentions.

And above all, Seagal is not a pro MMA fighter competing in matches -- and he doesn't have to be. Seagal never said he would kick so-and-so's asses in UFC or anywhere else; it's the MMA fanboys doing the matchmaking and ragging on Seagal. It's like it offends MMA meatheads that proficient martial artists can exist without being in the UFC or any other MMA organization. It's more like MMA arrogance that inflames things.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:30 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 2,307,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
yup.
bruce got all the love, he was an innovator, and JKD is great stuff. he was one of if not THE 1st to use protien shakes, supplements and the like. he was home making things like that, improving on his fitness constantly. he was a great athlete, with speed, strength, and power but in the end, chuck had nearly as much athleticism, was stronger, and bigger.

bruce learned and absorbed so much from so many places, but chuck went to great length to learn from the best he could find.
Chuck was like 2 inches taller. And in martial arts, the tale of the tape is a poor guide to use to predict a match winner. That should be obvious,
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,046,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyJ34 View Post
Gene Lebell has a bit of a reputation as a snake-oil salesman, so I wouldn't necessarily buy this story at face value. And the people that supposedly witnessed this 'choke-out' may be selling snake oil. Bottom line is nobody here was there that day, so nobody knows if this happened or not. And although I'm no Seagal fan per se, I can't understand why it's so popular to trash the guy. He's done more in his life than probably most or all the people on this forum, so there you go.

And a guy with Seagal's martial arts background is not a pushover. You don't reach his level of proficiency and not know how to fight. Who cares if he can't beat UFC champions or hasn't competed in 'real fights'; he can still kick ass!
this old man was a master of his craft, id say arguably to a higher level than seagal is with aikido. mpore often then not its the art than it is the level of proficiency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyJ34 View Post
Chuck was like 2 inches taller. And in martial arts, the tale of the tape is a poor guide to use to predict a match winner. That should be obvious,
not exactly sure of your point.

myself, i prefer judo and bjj over most other martial arts, and in both, if you have 2 equally trained players, the larger man wins nearly every time. like 99 out of 100.

now bruce lee was around 5'7" and 150 lbs (reported the year before he died best i can find was 146 lbs) chuck in his prime was about 5'10" and 170. not HUGE but significant.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:16 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 2,307,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
this old man was a master of his craft, id say arguably to a higher level than seagal is with aikido. mpore often then not its the art than it is the level of proficiency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I



not exactly sure of your point.

myself, i prefer judo and bjj over most other martial arts, and in both, if you have 2 equally trained players, the larger man wins nearly every time. like 99 out of 100.

now bruce lee was around 5'7" and 150 lbs (reported the year before he died best i can find was 146 lbs) chuck in his prime was about 5'10" and 170. not HUGE but significant.
I saw that clip that you provided long ago. That 'master' was a poor representative of masters as a whole, I think. You can isolate a case and use the outcome of that case to 'prove' your general argument, but that would be fallacious. I'm not sure where you get your 99 out of 100 times figure. And the reason I mentioned Chuck's height is because you referenced his being larger than Bruce as if it were a major point. So I addressed it as not being that much difference. But when you look at all combat sports, the tale of the tape does not always decide the winner. That should be obvious. I mean, if picking a winner were all a numbers game, you would just automatically pick the larger fighter and not even bother to have a fight. And how often are two guys truly evenly matched? All else being equal rarely occurs -- there are so many variables and intangibles that could conceivably alter the outcome of a match. With two untrained average Joe's, the larger guy generally wins. But in professional combat, things are not so clear cut.

And I still say guys like Seagal or Ed Parker are/were proficient guys that could more than handle themselves.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:23 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,046,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyJ34 View Post
I saw that clip that you provided long ago. That 'master' was a poor representative of masters as a whole, I think. You can isolate a case and use the outcome of that case to 'prove' your general argument, but that would be fallacious. I'm not sure where you get your 99 out of 100 times figure. And the reason I mentioned Chuck's height is because you referenced his being larger than Bruce as if it were a major point. So I addressed it as not being that much difference. But when you look at all combat sports, the tale of the tape does not always decide the winner. That should be obvious. I mean, if picking a winner were all a numbers game, you would just automatically pick the larger fighter and not even bother to have a fight. And how often are two guys truly evenly matched? All else being equal rarely occurs -- there are so many variables and intangibles that could conceivably alter the outcome of a match. With two untrained average Joe's, the larger guy generally wins. But in professional combat, things are not so clear cut.

And I still say guys like Seagal or Ed Parker are/were proficient guys that could more than handle themselves.
im just curious if you have ever trained martial arts, and if so what martial art you study/studied?

seagal is an aikido practitioner. have you ever had an aikido class? aikido is NOT a self defense art. even the highest of instructors will tell you aikido is about self improvement NOT self defense. the techniques all but REQUIRE a willing uke. you must have someone willing to "go with the flow" to make the techniques work with the majority of them.

ill give you ed parker, kempo (or kenpo depending who you ask) is a strong striking art. aikido, not a strong anything BUT it looks great in movies. very showy and flashy.

as for the 99 of 100 comment. ive been around this game for a very long time, and see, coached and reffed a lot of matches. the bigger man with solid technique will almost always beat the smaller man with solid+ technique. there is always the "punchers chance" so to speak. look at gsp, he walks around at 195-200 lbs but cuts weight to 170. why? because he knows he will be MUCH bigger thus increasing his advantage. bj penns jiu jitsu is easily better than gsp on a technique to technique comparison, hell bj has been called the best boxer in mma, but the much bigger gsp beat him up a couple of times. its not that gsp has better technique, he has comperable technique and much more size. the last fight bj walked around at 167 lbs, gsp cut from 195 and was easily 190+ on fight night.
my point was that chuck norris was bigger than bruce lee. chuck had a 3" and 20+ lb weight advantage. now in a flash kungfu movie type fight, not a real advantage, in a real fight, definitely an advantage.

its funny, helio gracie always talked about how gracie jiu jitsu was "created" (or borrowed from judo) so the smaller man could defeat the larger man. this is truly the case if the trained smaller man is fighting a non trained larger man. helio gracie lost several fights, and every one of them were to trained larger men. kimura rag dolled helio, santana knocked helio out, both men much larger.

bottom line, while seagal can hold his own no doubt, against untrained knuckleheads, his martial art of choice has left him wanting. aikido is no match for anything more than the george dilman zealots.
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