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Old 07-22-2015, 11:44 AM
 
143 posts, read 96,588 times
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Aside from being a sport, the martial arts can also be very effective in self defense by a skilled and well trained practitioner. That being said, there are legal and moral aspects that come into play with self defense and the use of force. For one thing, the person you're up against and the level of threat they are. In most cases, a man will be a much bigger threat than a woman or child. So if a man causes trouble, you might have to put them down with any level of force which might involve smashing his head like a watermelon. If weapons are involved that can further complicate things but right now Im talking about a situation where no weapons are involved. Im talking about when a man decides to make trouble and nobody has any weapons. Like I said, a man will usually be a much bigger threat than a woman or child. And by man, Im talking about anybody who can be legally charged as an adult as lots of teenagers can be just as big a threat as fully grown men and thus often are charged as an adult. If you can be charged as an adult than you're a man in regards to the level of force that can be used against you.

And, not only are men usually much bigger threats than women and children they're also much more likely to cause trouble. Men tend to be much more aggressive and troublesome. So, I hold back with women and children but with men, give me a reason its open season.
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Old 07-22-2015, 12:52 PM
 
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If that last sentence gives an accurate picture of how you actually conduct yourself, you could be asking for trouble legally. Depends on the situation.

Of course there are going to be plenty of street fights where the law is never involved. The participants just fight until the issue is settled according to the code of the street. No one calls the police, and the law never comes into play. Since you're asking here about legal issues, though, the answer is that the law does not support the code of the street notion that once a guy makes the first move, anything goes.

You could be on solid ground legally if you gave a guy a real thrashing, IF that first move involved enough of a clear and imminent threat of serious bodily harm to you. Assuming the law comes into play, if the other guy's first move falls short of creating the imminent likelihood of serious injury, you're in trouble if you clean the guy's clock.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:56 AM
 
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If we are talking the street and methods of self defense it seems to me that these days most people just pull out a gun and shoot their opponent rendering all that martial arts training rather redundant.
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Old 08-18-2015, 06:14 PM
 
143 posts, read 96,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Of course there are going to be plenty of street fights where the law is never involved. The participants just fight until the issue is settled according to the code of the street. No one calls the police, and the law never comes into play. Since you're asking here about legal issues, though, the answer is that the law does not support the code of the street notion that once a guy makes the first move, anything goes.
Right, well Im talking about when the law does get involved. In a dark alley the law might not be involved but in other settings such as a college campus or the boardwalk at a beach it would be a different story. I was at the beach this summer and I saw a fistfight break out on the boardwalk. The boardwalk is regularly patrolled by police officers and at this particular boardwalk they've even got a mini police station. Both of the guys were arrested and put in handcuffs. At a college campus you will most likely be looking at the same thing.

Anyway, if I do give somebody a thorough thrashing who started trouble with me which would be the case because I don't go pick fights or try to cause trouble I only beat people up if they bother me, so I thoroughly trash this troublemaker and lets say he happens to have the name Christopher. Would that at all help me out in court? If it doesn't it should. I should have the right to thrash anybody with the name Christopher if they bother me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
If we are talking the street and methods of self defense it seems to me that these days most people just pull out a gun and shoot their opponent rendering all that martial arts training rather redundant.
That also depends on the setting. Not in all places can you have a gun. On college campuses guns and most other dangerous weapons are banned. Same thing with airports, most nightclubs, bars, ect. And besides, there are some places where most people generally don't carry guns except for police officers or other people whose job involves carrying guns. In some states its practically unheard of to carry a gun unless you're in a profession that involves it.
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:46 PM
 
5,772 posts, read 13,753,860 times
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Originally Posted by ToddSteel View Post
Right, well Im talking about when the law does get involved. In a dark alley the law might not be involved but in other settings such as a college campus or the boardwalk at a beach it would be a different story. I was at the beach this summer and I saw a fistfight break out on the boardwalk. The boardwalk is regularly patrolled by police officers and at this particular boardwalk they've even got a mini police station. Both of the guys were arrested and put in handcuffs. At a college campus you will most likely be looking at the same thing.

Anyway, if I do give somebody a thorough thrashing who started trouble with me which would be the case because I don't go pick fights or try to cause trouble I only beat people up if they bother me, so I thoroughly trash this troublemaker and lets say he happens to have the name Christopher. Would that at all help me out in court? If it doesn't it should. I should have the right to thrash anybody with the name Christopher if they bother me.
I'm really missing what the name Christopher has to do with anything.

Christopher or not, if the law's involved, you could be in trouble legally if you gave a "thorough thrashing" to someone who "started trouble" with you. It depends on what trouble he started.

Since I'm explaining some basics about the law here, I'll tell you I'm a former LEO, so I know this stuff. Not in the depth a lawyer would, but enough so I know what I'm talking about.

This is a really simple explanation that covers some basics but does not get into all the legal nuances. The basic idea is that the law lets you defend yourself with force if you're the victim of an unlawful aggression where either:

1) you are actually attacked, physical force (even minimal force) is actually used against you, etc.

or

2) the aggressor's actions give you good reason to believe that you face the imminent threat of being attacked.

That does not mean that you get to really let loose on someone as soon as he makes any kind of move on you. There is a second part to the general idea. The second part has to do with when the law does allow you to seriously let loose on someone.

Again, this does not cover everything, but the general idea is that before the law lets you use any force likely to either kill or seriously injure an assailant, his actions have to give you good cause to believe that he is putting you in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured.

For example, each incident has its own circumstances, but generally speaking the law would not allow you to really let loose on a guy who did nothing more than shove you. Even a hard shove would not usually justify giving him a "thorough thrashing" in the view of the law.

There could be exceptions to this, like a case where the guy's actions give you good reason to believe that shove is about to be followed up immediately by something a lot more serious. Usually, though, a shove would be considered minor force that would not justify a violent response from you.

A key point is that the other guy's actions have to cause you good reason to believe he actually is about to attack you severely. Just the fact that he appears physically capable of inflicting serious damage is not enough for you to severely attack him, unless he clearly appears to be about to actually attack you severely in the next moment.

Even then, unless you're in a state with a Stand Your Ground law, the law in the U.S. generally expects you to save force likely to cause death or serious injury as a last resort. If you can safely back away from the other guy, or even walk away altogether, in the absence of an SYG law, the law says you have the obligation to get away (it's known as a "duty to retreat") before really giving a thorough thrashing, even to a guy who's threatening to do the same to you.

On top of all that, even if you didn't start anything in the sense of making the first physical move, the law could still hold you partly responsible for a fight if you used taunting or abusive words ("fighting words") that set the other guy off.

Bottom line: You can't just let loose on another guy just because he makes the first move. It depends on the circumstances, including how seriously you're likely to be injured if you don't defend yourself. If the law's involved, you'd better be fighting for your life, or to keep yourself out of the hospital or to avoid serious injury along those lines, and the other guy needs to be actually coming at you with the clear intent of a serious attack, not just be physically capable of inflicting major damage.

Last edited by ogre; 08-18-2015 at 08:09 PM..
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Old 08-19-2015, 12:52 PM
 
143 posts, read 96,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
I'm really missing what the name Christopher has to do with anything.

Christopher or not, if the law's involved, you could be in trouble legally if you gave a "thorough thrashing" to someone who "started trouble" with you. It depends on what trouble he started.
Because Christopher happens to be my name. ToddSteel is just the name that I use on City-Data but Christopher happens to be my real name and while there are some Christophers out there who are really cool, there are also those that are absolute jerks. I can't have people dishonor my name like that. I am sick and tired of people with my name who don't deserve it. So if I do get into an altercation with somebody with the name Christopher, the fact that he has my first name I would hope it would help my case in court.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,552 posts, read 16,415,013 times
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Originally Posted by ToddSteel View Post
Because Christopher happens to be my name. ToddSteel is just the name that I use on City-Data but Christopher happens to be my real name and while there are some Christophers out there who are really cool, there are also those that are absolute jerks. I can't have people dishonor my name like that. I am sick and tired of people with my name who don't deserve it. So if I do get into an altercation with somebody with the name Christopher, the fact that he has my first name I would hope it would help my case in court.
^wtf lol

That is the funniest thing I have ever read. You need some help with your mental health.
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Old 08-30-2015, 10:34 AM
 
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The fact of the matter is, I don't like people with my name who don't deserve it.
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,243 posts, read 4,596,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddSteel View Post
That also depends on the setting. Not in all places can you have a gun. On college campuses guns and most other dangerous weapons are banned. Same thing with airports, most nightclubs, bars, ect. And besides, there are some places where most people generally don't carry guns except for police officers or other people whose job involves carrying guns. In some states its practically unheard of to carry a gun unless you're in a profession that involves it.
Criminals, people who have a tendency to be violent and aggressive, have zero care about a gun being banned somewhere. Is that sign on the door going to stop them?

Why do you think most mass shootings happen in places where guns are "prohibited?" Because the criminal knows only the law abiding will not be armed in those places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddSteel View Post
The fact of the matter is, I don't like people with my name who don't deserve it.
Who made it "your" name and what makes you the authority to decide if someone "deserves" it or not?
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Old 09-21-2015, 02:50 PM
 
143 posts, read 96,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army_Guy View Post
Who made it "your" name and what makes you the authority to decide if someone "deserves" it or not?
Its my name. I could show you an ID such as my driver's license or I could show you my birth certificate. Both of those will confirm that Christopher is my name.

As for what makes me the authority to decide if someone else deserves it or not? Because its my name, its that simple.
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