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Old 08-26-2016, 01:17 AM
 
64 posts, read 38,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLyfe View Post
Jiu-Jitsu. It'll go to the ground. It'll always go to the ground. 6 months of GOOD training and you can render most untrained people obsolete.
OK your comment is interesting but it needs some clarification :

1) You are talking about Brazilian jiu-jitsu (or Gracie jiu-jitsu). When you just write "jiu-jitsu", it means the Japanese traditional style, which doesn't focus on ground fighting.

2) No, it will not always go the ground, most of the street fights I saw consisted of sucker punches that end the fight in 2 seconds, knives, chairs thrown on your back etc. If you think that a street fight looks like a UFC round between 2 Brazilians, think again.

3) Many other styles include ground fighting, such as wrestling, sambo, judo etc. BJJ is certainly one the best styles for the ground, but sometimes it "loves the ground too much". What I mean is that in reality, you don't want to stay there, you need to get back on your feet. Playing with armlocks and kimura's can kill you in the street because you lose your 360 sight and your mobility, even if it's just 60 seconds. Even some Gracie (Rener, Ryron...) admitted this fact and insisted on adapting your skills in a street fight.

4) In 6 months you think you can beat most of the guys in the street ? Do you think BJJ and wrestling are some secrets martial styles that are only taught to the very few brave people? Ground fighting techniques became so common due to the UFC hype and stuff, that you need to train a lot more than 6 months to be confident about your skills in the street. Especially since in 90% of cases, the fight is "asymmetrical" (i.e. they are 3 and you are alone, or he has a knife while you have nothing etc.)
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
2,636 posts, read 1,544,093 times
Reputation: 5005
Quote:
Originally Posted by picopepec View Post
OK your comment is interesting but it needs some clarification :

1) You are talking about Brazilian jiu-jitsu (or Gracie jiu-jitsu). When you just write "jiu-jitsu", it means the Japanese traditional style, which doesn't focus on ground fighting.

2) No, it will not always go the ground, most of the street fights I saw consisted of sucker punches that end the fight in 2 seconds, knives, chairs thrown on your back etc. If you think that a street fight looks like a UFC round between 2 Brazilians, think again.

3) Many other styles include ground fighting, such as wrestling, sambo, judo etc. BJJ is certainly one the best styles for the ground, but sometimes it "loves the ground too much". What I mean is that in reality, you don't want to stay there, you need to get back on your feet. Playing with armlocks and kimura's can kill you in the street because you lose your 360 sight and your mobility, even if it's just 60 seconds. Even some Gracie (Rener, Ryron...) admitted this fact and insisted on adapting your skills in a street fight.

4) In 6 months you think you can beat most of the guys in the street ? Do you think BJJ and wrestling are some secrets martial styles that are only taught to the very few brave people? Ground fighting techniques became so common due to the UFC hype and stuff, that you need to train a lot more than 6 months to be confident about your skills in the street. Especially since in 90% of cases, the fight is "asymmetrical" (i.e. they are 3 and you are alone, or he has a knife while you have nothing etc.)
This is all true. To develop real empty hand fighting skill, one needs to train both on the ground and in a stand-up style. The ground fighting is there as a backup, in case it goes to the ground, but its a bad idea to go there deliberately.


If you are starting out with no training at all in any MA, after 6 months of BJJ you can beat someone who doesn't know how to fight. Its a start, but you have a ways to go.


Street combat is unpredictable. Its not only the good guys who train in a MA, and your attacker is likely to either be armed or with friends, or both. There are many reasons why training in an empty hand MA is a good thing to do, but if you are in a serious situation where you really need to defend your life, you'd better have a weapon handy -- preferably a firearm.
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Old 08-29-2016, 02:30 PM
 
6,805 posts, read 3,570,578 times
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I would say a mix of some kind for wrestling/submission grappling such as judo or Sambo, BJJ or submission grappling , and a full contact style such boxing or Muay Thai rounded out with some Dog Brothers style of weapons training.

As far as any style, forget it unless they have a good amount of full contact sparring.
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Old 09-02-2016, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Encino, CA
3,508 posts, read 3,200,070 times
Reputation: 6045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lucas View Post
For small men who are about 5'7 or 5'8 and who weight about a buck 50 or so... what would be the best self defense style for them to learn, preferably one designed for smaller people to defeat larger opponents (if such a style even exists)?
There is no "best style to learn" and there is no style "designed for smaller people to defeat larger opponents". My suggestion to you is to find what is available in your area, talk to the teachers, then try out the free intro lesson most schools have. From there, you can decide if what they do is right for you. Then, STICK WITH IT!! Dont just do it for a few months, then try another style for a few months, then another and another....that will get you ZERO skill. That is also why I disagree with all the posters here to say to learn a good ground art, then a stand up art, etc.

I also totally reject the comment someone made about "all fights go to the ground". That gobbygock is complete nonsense. Said by people who A) have never been in a fight in their lives; or B) Have been and/or have seem some sucky non-skilled individuals fight.

Pick an art that you enjoy, that is taught be qualified/skilled teacher(s) and stick with it and you will develop some self defense skills. Your size, style, etc. will matter far less that your actual skill in the art. I've seen some BAAAAAAD dudes of all sizes who studied different arts and they were highly skilled.
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Old 09-02-2016, 01:45 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
3,272 posts, read 2,318,379 times
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A big gun!
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Encino, CA
3,508 posts, read 3,200,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
a combination of judo, brazilian jiu jitsu and muay thai.
Quote:
Originally Posted by picopepec View Post
Your main style would be krav maga or street-oriented kali (in order to learn how to defend against knives, sticks, multiple opponents, de-escalation etc.).

With this you add some good boxing skills for the striking, the reflexes, the footwork and the conditioning, and you add some wrestling or BJJ to deal with ground fighting (note that your goal would be to leave the ground, not to go there).
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLyfe View Post
Jiu-Jitsu. It'll go to the ground. It'll always go to the ground. 6 months of GOOD training and you can render most untrained people obsolete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnTrips View Post
To develop real empty hand fighting skill, one needs to train both on the ground and in a stand-up style.

If you are starting out with no training at all in any MA, after 6 months of BJJ you can beat someone who doesn't know how to fight. Its a start, but you have a ways to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just A Guy View Post
I would say a mix of some kind for wrestling/submission grappling such as judo or Sambo, BJJ or submission grappling , and a full contact style such boxing or Muay Thai rounded out with some Dog Brothers style of weapons training.
I am not going to say this is all bad advice (except for the dude who says you can render people obselete with 6 months of training - that is BAD advice and terribly wrong), but I definitely have problems with those mention a mix of this with a mix of that. All that is going to do is get you a lot of really low level white-orange belt level beginner skills in those arts. Not going to work. I've seen a LOT of guys over the years who say they've trained this way but they couldnt fight worth a poop. OP, if you cannot fight, have never been in a fight, or never had any training whatsoever, just find a place where teachers are good, you like the art that is being taught, and stay there and train for a number of years.

If you had the time and the money and the luck to have competent teachers in different arts in your area, then by all means do so, but still for number of years. But really, dont expect to have any type of skill by just dabbling in a "grappling" art, then dabbling in a "striking" art.

Also, you need to take care of your physical fitness as well. You need to make sure your cardio is strong (even though fights dont last long) and you need to be in as good of physical shape as possible. This is why I'd take an untrained NBA or NFL player over a fight with a guy who has trained martial arts but is in poor physical shape. Otherwise you'd end up looking like these guys:

https://www.facebook.com/mediatakeou...2979453733998/

Last edited by Kings Gambit; 09-02-2016 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:11 PM
 
6,805 posts, read 3,570,578 times
Reputation: 8508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings Gambit View Post
I am not going to say this is all bad advice (except for the dude who says you can render people obselete with 6 months of training - that is BAD advice and terribly wrong),
I trained in BJJ back in the "challenge days". I saw many guys (and did so myself) who easily beat larger guys after 6-8 months or so of training. Going against guys who were clueless about the ground and grappling was like having superpowers back then. Almost everyone was totally clueless about what was happening to them. These days, with MMA being so popular, many more people are aware of grappling and the ground so things are probably a bit different.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:05 PM
 
596 posts, read 815,775 times
Reputation: 1181
The best martial art for a beginner is located in a dojo where the person feels comfortable with the environment and it's close to where the person lives. The most effective fighting style in the world will be worthless to you if you quit training after a couple of months for whatever reason. The BEST weapon for self defense is your instincts. If a situation feels bad/unsafe, then try to avoid it. Another weapon that is high on the list is to be in good physical condition, so that you will walk around with confidence and look less like a potential victim.

Ground arts like BJJ have been mentioned in this thread, and they are certainly effective (especially in a controlled one-on-one environment in the dojo). However, choosing to go to the ground in the street can be bad for your health. No matter which art that you train, don't feel that you are invincible after a couple of lessons. It can take years (or longer) to master certain techniques.

There is a big difference between performing a technique in a dojo on a cooperative partner vs performing it in a chaotic street situation when your heart is racing and you lose your fine motor skills. My rule of thumb is until you can demonstrate that you can perform a technique while free-sparring an opponent who at a MINIMUM is your size and ability, then do NOT assume that you can perform that technique in the street.
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,318 posts, read 21,877,253 times
Reputation: 33476
my technique against small shrimpy men is to bash them over the head with my fist (aka The Hammer) using a downward motion.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, Ca
6,901 posts, read 3,832,091 times
Reputation: 16286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles22 View Post
Xtraining. Always wear athletic shoes.

Yup.... " it's a poor set of legs that will let a man stand there and take a beating"!
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