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Old 09-01-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,224,238 times
Reputation: 1982

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
Not everyone is the same. I don't see how you can't see that.
So what you're saying is a boxer can step in to a cage and learn how to kick in no time while keeping his boxing stance? While literally every single kicking style martial art has a totally different stance required to build proper power, mobility an power?

Then why doesn't Muay Thai or TKD or San sho or any list of others utilize a boxing stance?
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:21 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,507,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
So what you're saying is a boxer can step in to a cage and learn how to kick in no time while keeping his boxing stance? While literally every single kicking style martial art has a totally different stance required to build proper power, mobility an power?

Then why doesn't Muay Thai or TKD or San sho or any list of others utilize a boxing stance?
I know how to kick. I come from a boxing background. I know how to use my movement and my weight to produce force.

And who cares anyway? I don't even want to kick if I don't have to.

Hands are the quickest and fastest way and safest. Kicking, who knows what can happen. If you can avoid kicking, it's probably your best bet.

You have to stop being so biased. Not everyone has to do Muy Thai and Jujitsu to be successful. There are others arts out there.

The best thing to do is to find the kicks that work for you and to switch to a Muy Thai stance when necessary.

Why do you think boxers are just stupid? I mean, a lot of fight is instinct. A guy like Mayweather doesn't freeze up. He walked a big mouth, disrespectful "power" puncher down and knocked him out after all that talk.

Does that sound like a guy that freezes up? Look at how Mayweather outhustled McGregor in the clinch, dominated in the elbow game. Even McGregor gave him props.

You haven't fought Mayweather. You don't know.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:32 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,224,238 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
I know how to kick. I come from a boxing background. I know how to use my movement and my weight to produce force.

And who cares anyway? I don't even want to kick if I don't have to.

Hands are the quickest and fastest way and safest. Kicking, who knows what can happen. If you can avoid kicking, it's probably your best bet.

You have to stop being so biased. Not everyone has to do Muy Thai and Jujitsu to be successful. There are others arts out there.

The best thing to do is to find the kicks that work for you and to switch to a Muy Thai stance when necessary.

Why do you think boxers are just stupid? I mean, a lot of fight is instinct. A guy like Mayweather doesn't freeze up. He walked a big mouth, disrespectful "power" puncher down and knocked him out after all that talk.

Does that sound like a guy that freezes up? Look at how Mayweather outhustled McGregor in the clinch, dominated in the elbow game. Even McGregor gave him props.

You haven't fought Mayweather. You don't know.
This from the guy who went from "1st round KO" to "Conor actually looks good, he has a chance" to " Conor has no chance what so ever"

Etc etc, you calling me bias yet you're so boxing bias you can't even see it.

I'm done. Have a good night...
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:39 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,507,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
This from the guy who went from "1st round KO" to "Conor actually looks good, he has a chance" to " Conor has no chance what so ever"

Etc etc, you calling me bias yet you're so boxing bias you can't even see it.

I'm done. Have a good night...
Got them odds up though, didn't I?
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Old 09-02-2017, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,352 posts, read 26,378,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
While very old, it's very relevant.

https://youtu.be/rDXsfo8aoBI
Why is this relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Maybe watch James toney bs randy couture. Check out art jimmerson
I think we're getting too caught up on individual matchups here. A retired, out of shape James Toney and an unknown boxer are no indication of how any boxer, particularly those at the very peak of their craft, would do in a mixed martial arts environment.

This is also veering away from the initial convo we were having anyway. "Mixed" martial arts are by definition mulit-disciplinary. Boxing is itself a discipline. We are essentially talking about the generalist vs the specialist, and is the case in most things in life, it's easier to catch up to a generalist than it is to a specialist.

You're trying to knock down an argument that nobody was making in the first place. Nobody ever said that a boxer could jump right into the octagon and dominate. I do think, however, that a boxer could find more success in the UFC because expert grappling/kicking skills are not required to reach the top of the sport in MMA whereas expert boxing skills *are* required to reach the pinnacle of boxing.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-02-2017 at 07:29 AM..
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Old 09-02-2017, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,352 posts, read 26,378,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
You have to stop being so biased. Not everyone has to do Muy Thai and Jujitsu to be successful. There are others arts out there.
He's already admitted that there have been MMA champions who did not come from a grappling/BJJ background. I would say that puts an end to the argument.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:02 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,224,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Why is this relevant?



I think we're getting too caught up on individual matchups here. A retired, out of shape James Toney and an unknown boxer are no indication of how any boxer, particularly those at the very peak of their craft, would do in a mixed martial arts environment.

This is also veering away from the initial convo we were having anyway. "Mixed" martial arts are by definition mulit-disciplinary. Boxing is itself a discipline. We are essentially talking about the generalist vs the specialist, and is the case in most things in life, it's easier to catch up to a generalist than it is to a specialist.

You're trying to knock down an argument that nobody was making in the first place. Nobody ever said that a boxer could jump right into the octagon and dominate. I do think, however, that a boxer could find more success in the UFC because expert grappling/kicking skills are not required to reach the top of the sport in MMA whereas expert boxing skills *are* required to reach the pinnacle of boxing.
its relevant because it shows how terrible a conventional stance is when leg kicks are involved.

and the point stands, it is easier to transition from a grappling base to a striking base than vise versa. at minimum in the mma world.
think of the most dominant champions in mma. anderson silva, he is a bjj blackbelt and very high ranked in bjj long before becoming a striker.
chuck liddell, collegiate level wrestler long before becoming a KO artist.
fedor, he is and has always been a combat sambo fighter. sambo being a mixture of judo wrestling and native russian grappling, with a minimal amount of striking involved.
mark kerr, mark coleman, even down to the smaller classes. bj penn was a world champion black belt world champion brown belt and purple belt as well. never trained boxing before yet was widely regarded as one of the best strikers around. his "boxing" came from after school back yard fights growing up.
jose aldo was a bjj player since childhood and a blackbelt long before he started KOing people.
matt hughes, a world class wrestler at or near olympic level long before mma. matt lindlen was an olympian. faber is a wrestler, frankie edger, wrestler and bjj blackbelt. tito ortis, a dominant wrestler. cain valsquez, wrestling.

the only guy who really made a living as a grappler coming from a striking background is GSP, who has a karate back ground.
machida is a karate guy, wand is a muay thai fighter. neither is a big grappler, but both have had bjj blackbelts for years.

the list is endless of guys who started as grapplers and learned how to strike the list if absolutely tiny of guy who went the other way. grappling is just so much harder to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
He's already admitted that there have been MMA champions who did not come from a grappling/BJJ background. I would say that puts an end to the argument.
yes there have been champions who didnt come from a grappling background but not a lot. there are far more who grappled first and made their name with striking.

an interesting list with some video of boxers transitioning to mma.

A History of Boxers in MMA | Bleacher Report

a list of mma fighteers with boxing records. nothing crazy on there really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...boxing_records
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:59 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,507,522 times
Reputation: 2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
He's already admitted that there have been MMA champions who did not come from a grappling/BJJ background. I would say that puts an end to the argument.
I wouldn't even waste my breath. He thinks because he can't do something that other people can't do it. That's not a good mentality for a coach.

It's just like when coaches at boxing gyms will tell you not to switch stances when you train. It's like, why?

Switching stances gives me more angles on the attack and gives me more escape routes. You'll notice that Mayweather switches stances too, but it's subtle and purposeful.

Rigas just has that hard head mentality and let's face it, he hates boxing. He doesn't respect it. I bet you McGregor respects it now.

Guarantee McGregor won't be running his mouth at the winner of GGG vs Canelo unless he's completely insane.
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Old 09-02-2017, 03:11 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,507,522 times
Reputation: 2458
People keep talking about getting kicked in the head. Kicking to the head is extremely energy intensive. McGregor came out with all those fancy kicks against Diaz the first time, gassed out, and was beat down within 2 rounds.

Are you saying that all of a sudden the master of timing, which is Mayweather, is unable to time a kick? Timing is timing.
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Old 09-02-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,224,238 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
I wouldn't even waste my breath. He thinks because he can't do something that other people can't do it. That's not a good mentality for a coach.

It's just like when coaches at boxing gyms will tell you not to switch stances when you train. It's like, why?

Switching stances gives me more angles on the attack and gives me more escape routes. You'll notice that Mayweather switches stances too, but it's subtle and purposeful.

Rigas just has that hard head mentality and let's face it, he hates boxing. He doesn't respect it. I bet you McGregor respects it now.

Guarantee McGregor won't be running his mouth at the winner of GGG vs Canelo unless he's completely insane.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
It's not that I can't do it, it's that NOBODY does it.
It's very simple, a boxing stance leaves your entire leg and body wide open to kicks, and minimizes the power you can create.

Has nothing to do with hating boxing or loving it, it has to do with the fact that you obviously have zero idea what you're talking about. You're talking like IM the only person out there who says a boxing stance won't work in mma. If a boxing stance worked in mma, people would use it. Amature and pros would use it... NOBODY uses it. Why don't they use it? Because it's a BAD POSITION for an mma fight.
All that talk of what you can do in a boxing ring tells us all you have zero idea what mma is or what works... but in the bias hater...

Where do you live? What city? I'll find you a local gym, you can go try out your boxing stance power kicks... tell me how that works out.
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