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Old 01-31-2018, 01:36 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
2,877 posts, read 3,300,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
Here's the situation. McGregor went to the sport of boxing to run his mouth about how he will dominate both MMA and boxing with an iron fist. I think that's actually literally what he said. So, my expectation was that I was underestimating this guy and he was some kind of a monster. I even believed McGregor over Malinaggi. I imagine what he could do, but he was not able to execute against Mayweather who simply dominated him in that fight.

I gave McGregor only 1 round, the first. Why? Because McGregor had to restort to cheating as early as round 2. That means mentally, he was already beat. Then it was only a matter of time before McGregor was knocked out on live television in front of all his fans, with his dreams of fame crushed, as he became closer and closer to unconsciousness with every Mayweather punch.

Boxing is serious. If you have enough heart in boxing, you can die in the ring. People will rain punches on you. Tired is not an excuse. Stamina is a strategy. They used to go 15 rounds and I bet a high probability of fights ended in those rounds. That is some serious punishment.

With that said, nobody is making this about MMA vs boxing. Only an imbecile would go into an MMA fight without learning additional strategies. Unfortunately, due to the variety of ways to fight people and all the different methods of training, injuries are high.

With boxing, it is more realistic to see a fighter still operating at a high level in their prime if they are an elite fighter. As long as MMA fighters don't get injured and don't take a lot of punishment, this can happen too, but it is difficult. I think McGregor could last as long as he can keep the fights on the outside and continue to KO his opponents.

I don't know if McGregor has recovered from the Mayweather loss though. I think his ego is hurt because Mayweather was hitting him harder than he was hitting Mayweather, despite Mayweather being the smaller man. I guess we'll see.

Anyway, both MMA and boxing are fighting. If you don't believe me, try it.

I'm a judoka thats kickboxed on and off fyi. Boxing is a sport that is only a component of fighting. The more complete fighter is the one who will win in minimum rules.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:05 AM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,493,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
I'm a judoka thats kickboxed on and off fyi. Boxing is a sport that is only a component of fighting. The more complete fighter is the one who will win in minimum rules.
No. That doesn't make sense. The better fighter wins. You might have someone that's okay at everything, but still get his ass whupped.

There might be someone that is terrible at stand up but is great at wrestling, and they might win. Or you might have somone that is amazing at stand up and terrible at wrestling, and they might win.

What are you saying exactly? That if you go into MMA that you should learn more skills? Hard to argue against that, but what you said is simply untrue.

It's like that with all sports.
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Old 02-01-2018, 12:14 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
2,877 posts, read 3,300,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
No. That doesn't make sense. The better fighter wins. You might have someone that's okay at everything, but still get his ass whupped.

There might be someone that is terrible at stand up but is great at wrestling, and they might win. Or you might have somone that is amazing at stand up and terrible at wrestling, and they might win.

What are you saying exactly? That if you go into MMA that you should learn more skills? Hard to argue against that, but what you said is simply untrue.

It's like that with all sports.

I've had 'free sparring' matches with a good friend of mine who's been boxing/kickboxing for 12 years but has no training in any grappling discipline. I've less than two years training in kb total, but 26 years of judo. He's also the guy who got me into kickboxing. In pure kickboxing I don't stand a chance, i'm lucky if I can hang in there for 2 rounds. In 'free sparring' rules I have not lost once. I could have done much the same thing I do now as a green belt in judo.

Last edited by archineer; 02-01-2018 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:30 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
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By 'free sparring', I mean mixed rules, not really mma rules. Basically I can use judo but no ground strikes, dangerous, takedowns or submissions etc.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:28 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,493,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
By 'free sparring', I mean mixed rules, not really mma rules. Basically I can use judo but no ground strikes, dangerous, takedowns or submissions etc.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything though.

If you have an MMA fighter, unless they don't take their profession seriously, they will have trained in multiple arts; however, generally the guys that make it to the top are known for being good at a few things, but not everything.

Take McGregor. He's certainly not the most complete fighter, but he's so good at what he does, it doesn't matter if his opponent is more complete.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:07 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,194,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything though.

If you have an MMA fighter, unless they don't take their profession seriously, they will have trained in multiple arts; however, generally the guys that make it to the top are known for being good at a few things, but not everything.

Take McGregor. He's certainly not the most complete fighter, but he's so good at what he does, it doesn't matter if his opponent is more complete.
4 of the best ever as an example.
What ďone thingĒ
Was GSP good at?
John jones? (And donít say drugs)
BJ Penn
Mighty Mouse
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:37 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,493,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
4 of the best ever as an example.
What “one thing”
Was GSP good at? Avoiding punishment.
John jones? (And don’t say drugs) Reach.
BJ Penn Instinct.
Mighty Mouse
GSP Avoiding Punishment. John Jones Reach. Bj Penn Instinct. Might Mouse - Not seen much. Reflexes?

Now I guess its your turn to tell me something about how I should think, but I'm already bored of this. I don't really care enough to argue.

Special fighters are special at something. It's the individual more than anything. A guy that's a complete non-athlete is going to get beat by a guy that's an athlete, but perhaps less complete.

It's like this in every sport. Not sure why we are arguing this.

Think about. Let's take a receiver in football. You might have better technique and be more well rounded, but that person is faster than you, so you don't get drafted and he does.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:43 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,194,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
GSP Avoiding Punishment. John Jones Reach. Bj Penn Instinct. Might Mouse - Not seen much. Reflexes?

Now I guess its your turn to tell me something about how I should think, but I'm already bored of this. I don't really care enough to argue.

Special fighters are special at something. It's the individual more than anything. A guy that's a complete non-athlete is going to get beat by a guy that's an athlete, but perhaps less complete.

It's like this in every sport. Not sure why we are arguing this.

Think about. Let's take a receiver in football. You might have better technique and be more well rounded, but that person is faster than you, so you don't get drafted and he does.
Not a single one of those things you named is an MMA discipline. You went from telling someone that every mma fighter trains all these styles but is best at one, then go off with ďGSPs one thing/style is avoiding damageĒ? Jones is reach?

Mma isnít whoís a better athlete over who knows more. Itís actually the exact opposite. Technique beats athleticism 9 out of 10 Times. Comparing mma to football is just dumb.

Youíre bored because you are just making **** up and donít have a clue. Never trained, never been in a fight, thatís my guess.

I have personally trained and trained with some fantastic athletes. I have watched guys who could run 4.4 40s, and dunk a ball from the free throw line and still run a 6 minute mile with ease get man handled by simple bjj blue belts. Iíve watched college wrestlers maul Muay Thai fighters/boxers who have trained since they were small children.

Styles make fights, athletes donít.
The difference is, when 2 great athletes compete, the man with better technique wins almost every single time. A man with great technique out weighs athleticism PERIOD. Ask Royce Gracie, rickson, helio. I donít care for Royce, or helio but they were 2 terribly unathletic men, yet defeated men far more athletic repeatedly.

Hell youre a boxing fan go listen to mike Tyson on the subject.

#SoUnInformed
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:30 PM
 
8,083 posts, read 5,287,531 times
Reputation: 9241
They need less events in order to have really good cards. I feel like 2 events in a month is ok. 1 PPV and 1 FS1 event. The last PPV was a bore.

UFC needs to link up with lower MMA companies. This way they can use the UFC.TV as a way to promote new and upcoming fighters. Set-up UFC Brazil and Europe to run somewhat independently. (build their own fighters and FS1 and UFC.TV events) The PPV event should have the greatest matchups. (a la UFC 205 - MSG Card) That was the best card in UFC history IMO.

A lot of UFC fighters are in their mid 30s and up. (close to the retiring age) Anderson Silva is done, Shogun shouldn't fight anymore, Noguiera bros shouldn't fight anymore, BJ Penn is retired, GSP might not fight, Jon Jones is not stable, Machida is old, Rashaad is old, Cain is injury prone, McGregor might never fight again, etc.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:32 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 1,493,559 times
Reputation: 2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Not a single one of those things you named is an MMA discipline. You went from telling someone that every mma fighter trains all these styles but is best at one, then go off with ďGSPs one thing/style is avoiding damageĒ? Jones is reach?

Mma isnít whoís a better athlete over who knows more. Itís actually the exact opposite. Technique beats athleticism 9 out of 10 Times. Comparing mma to football is just dumb.

Youíre bored because you are just making **** up and donít have a clue. Never trained, never been in a fight, thatís my guess.

I have personally trained and trained with some fantastic athletes. I have watched guys who could run 4.4 40s, and dunk a ball from the free throw line and still run a 6 minute mile with ease get man handled by simple bjj blue belts. Iíve watched college wrestlers maul Muay Thai fighters/boxers who have trained since they were small children.

Styles make fights, athletes donít.
The difference is, when 2 great athletes compete, the man with better technique wins almost every single time. A man with great technique out weighs athleticism PERIOD. Ask Royce Gracie, rickson, helio. I donít care for Royce, or helio but they were 2 terribly unathletic men, yet defeated men far more athletic repeatedly.

Hell youre a boxing fan go listen to mike Tyson on the subject.

#SoUnInformed
I don't know where this is coming from, but you don't know anything about me. I don't even know why you felt compelled to enter this conversation.

My response was to someone that said boxing is not a fight. Boxing is a fight where you have no choice but to move and evade and throw or take punches. McGregor was very cocky going into the fight with Mayweather, but in boxing, if you gas, you have nowhere to go. McGregor found this out the hard way.

This is a fact. You don't think being in such a position that McGregor was, helpless to the point to where the ref had to stop the fight, wasn't a fight? If McGregor didn't go down, and the ref didn't stop the fight, Mayweather could have done extensive damage.

Do you disagree with this? Now, I am bored. You always intervene and state obvious stuff that I didn't say. Where I did mention 4.4 athletes, etc. I know that you can't judge a fighter by his athletic qualities necessarily, although if an athlete can put it together, they will make a great fighter, as long as they have the intention to fight.

That's obvious too. Anyway, I honestly have more important things to deal with than this. But I agree with what you said, but thanks for inventing an argument I didn't get into.
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