Learning From A Real Fight (sport, injure, lose, world)

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by Motion

To add on to what I said earlier. As far as defense I think the guard would have come out better using a crazy monkey style of blocking with the elbows that some mma fighters like Rampage use. Then from there go into the clinch to neutralize the strikes of this guy and work to a submission.


YouTube - how to BLOCK punches

Straight out of the Muay Thai manifesto.

[Huckleberry3911948]

reality check.
in the movies jet li whups the bad guy the warden gives him a a promotion.. not in the real world, if the video roles were reversed if the guard had done the beating, this guards pension would be on the line. reality, the felon is in jail the guard has got his job, at best remedial training. wounded and beat up cops keep their jobs, a badge is not a license to practice your martial arts skills, that is how they do it in singapore. here after we get cussed out by the jailbird, we bear it and we have a donut, but we stay employed. if you carefully study the video you will see the fat cop is taking most of the blows to the fat, not a stupid cop. do you ever notice the news when a cop at 12 feet empties 4 clips and does not hit once. the gang bang people laugh and say stupid cop, yeah for sure--- 2 times a week on the range and a viet vet or gulf war veteran i dont think so. and now something much more cynical. 6 months from now for a few small favors several inmates might arrange an unfortunate incident for mr jailbird at mr fat cops request.

[Gplex]

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

It's possible, but I certainly wouldn't write any rules by it. If we were watching a video of Fedor being assaulted by an inmate I'm sure the outcome would be different.

Fedor is an exceptional fighter and, as such, makes a poor standard measure.

It is nearly impossible to hit someone hard who is clenching or pulling guard.

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by Gplex

It is nearly impossible to hit someone hard who is clenching or pulling guard.

I agree.

But pulling guard or clenching doesn't, in my opinion, provide adequate protection against someone sliding a knife between your ribs, grabbing-twisting-pulling your testes, biting your ear or nose or jabbing a thumb in your eye.

There aren't many rules in the octagon, but those rules provide for very drastic deviations from what an actual street-fight-for-your-life or protect-yourself-from-an-inmate would look like.

A rear-naked choke is real. Rapid upright striking is real. Joint locks and fancy choke submissions where your enemy has access to your groin are probably not. If he can reach your eyes, your throat or your genitals, don't do it.

I'm not trying to discredit anything that you have learned, I'm just saying that if you are really faced with a confrontation that could interfere with your ability to go home to your family I think that defensive-mindedness is a mistake. No reason to let someone who wants to hurt you and poses a credible threat throw the first strike and there isn't really any reason not to throw the first strike to the balls, the tip of the nose, the button of the chin, the center of the ear or with a brick. Just do everything you can to be sure you're in a position to "take the first turn" and you will give yourself the best chance of extricating yourself from a bad spot.

[Gplex]

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

I agree.
But pulling guard or clenching doesn't, in my opinion, provide adequate protection against someone sliding a knife between your ribs, grabbing-twisting-pulling your testes, biting your ear or nose or jabbing a thumb in your eye.
There aren't many rules in the octagon, but those rules provide for very drastic deviations from what an actual street-fight-for-your-life or protect-yourself-from-an-inmate would look like.
A rear-naked choke is real. Rapid upright striking is real. Joint locks and fancy choke submissions where your enemy has access to your groin are probably not. If he can reach your eyes, your throat or your genitals, don't do it.
I'm not trying to discredit anything that you have learned, I'm just saying that if you are really faced with a confrontation that could interfere with your ability to go home to your family I think that defensive-mindedness is a mistake. No reason to let someone who wants to hurt you and poses a credible threat throw the first strike and there isn't really any reason not to throw the first strike to the balls, the tip of the nose, the button of the chin, the center of the ear or with a brick. Just do everything you can to be sure you're in a position to "take the first turn" and you will give yourself the best chance of extricating yourself from a bad spot.

I've never faced anyone with a knife, but I had have people go for my balls, eyes and throat.
It usually gives me the opportunity to throw a right straight or elbow to the jaw, and end the disagreement.
I find most people are quite easy to control, once you have a fist full of hair, or a firm grip on the ear.

I think if I was face with a knife, and could not run away, I would try to control the arm while attempting to strike with another part of my body. I'm confident I won't get stabbed, but practicing with a rubber knife I feel the blade rubbing against my forearms ever now and then. Probably be a lot of blood lost.

[decafdave]

Originally Posted by Gplex

I've never faced anyone with a knife, but I had have people go for my balls, eyes and throat.
It usually gives me the opportunity to throw a right straight or elbow to the jaw, and end the disagreement.
I find most people are quite easy to control, once you have a fist full of hair, or a firm grip on the ear.

I think if I was face with a knife, and could not run away, I would try to control the arm while attempting to strike with another part of my body. I'm confident I won't get stabbed, but practicing with a rubber knife I feel the blade rubbing against my forearms ever now and then. Probably be a lot of blood lost.

There is no good defense against a knife attack except prayer that the attacker has no idea what he's doing. Anyone skilled with the knife will keep it close to their body until they strike so you'll have to block not only that attack but every subsequent one. I've seen ridiculous demonstrations with plastic knives where someone is disabled and the knife is taken away but I wouldn't depend on something like that for real.

I can't imagine there's a lot of places where you truly can't run or back down but if you know of them perhaps it's wise when visiting to carry your own knife or gun if legal?

[Gplex]

Originally Posted by decafdave

There is no good defense against a knife attack except prayer that the attacker has no idea what he's doing. Anyone skilled with the knife will keep it close to their body until they strike so you'll have to block not only that attack but every subsequent one. I've seen ridiculous demonstrations with plastic knives where someone is disabled and the knife is taken away but I wouldn't depend on something like that for real.
I can't imagine there's a lot of places where you truly can't run or back down but if you know of them perhaps it's wise when visiting to carry your own knife or gun if legal?

If you train your reactions, it may give you a chance to get away from a surprise knife attack.
If you could stay calm (highly unlikely) and your attacker isn't some highly train killing machine, these a good chance you will get away.

[rigas]

i tend to agree gplex, 99% of knife users/attackers are not skilled or trained in anyway but more a thug and nothing more. if someone is trained in knife fighting they DO NOT ATTACK someone.

the most common knife attack is the "jab/stab" type attack which is actually the easiest to defend against. a slash is a bit more difficult. by this i mean most attackers are looking to stab you with the knife, not slice a vein or something so pretty much a straight forward attack.

[Rggr]

A knife attack is one of the most difficult attacks in reality. It may come in the form of the jab/stab, but it usually is nothing like the attacks usually trained where it's a lunge that sticks the arm out there to be grabbed. Usually, the knife is concealed which makes the response more difficult. It also comes in the form of a series of rapid thrusts which are not very easy to trap when the blade makes it's cuts.

[decafdave]

Originally Posted by Gplex

If you train your reactions, it may give you a chance to get away from a surprise knife attack.
If you could stay calm (highly unlikely) and your attacker isn't some highly train killing machine, these a good chance you will get away.

Exactly what I was getting out. I wouldn't take any chances with some fairy-tail knife defense that works in the dojo. I agree that reaction time is the most important thing to work on but this can come from other martial arts training-no need to spend time training for a knife defense unless you have everything else mastered imo.