Downtown Ideas for Development (Birmingham, Mobile: sales, apartments, lofts)

[MPC]

The reason I am starting this thread is just to get people's thoughts on what we need downtown. I think we need housing, but also things that attract people like shopping, groceries, convenience etc.

They need to start building downtown. We need something like City Place in Long Beach. It's kind of like a mini-city or mall city. They have a Walmart built into it with stores surrounding it. Good concept in my opinion. They don't have real clear pictures so you can google map it.

Here is just a mock write-up of what I figure it'd cost to do it with tenants we would want (or may not want)
I also have a map but still working on it along with 3d renders.

[PortCity]

That is a good list MPC but where would they build it ? Demolish the Civic Center maybe ? My theory may go against the grain a little bit. I think that Mobile need to focus on attracting retail downtown and the interest in downtown residential living will increase. I was told that downtown residential living has grown. Though we have not had any new midrise or high-rise developments downtown as of lately but we have experienced a surge in historic restoration and renovation and that is just as major as a new tower in my book.

I also believe that Mobile need to capitalize and invest in it`s historic bones a lot more. I was riding in the De Tonti neighborhood today and I noticed that the bones of old Mobile was dug up and I hope that they don't cover them back up. And I will make a separate thread about that topic along with some questions and pictures later today. Every city has history that is unique in it`s own right but Mobile`s history is extensive and heavy. I think we need to attract more retail,offer a tax break that is hard to pass up;continue downtown renovation, impose a heavy fine on negligent property owners , and invest in our bones !

[MPC]

It would be built close to the cbd, here is an update


Here is the location of the project

[raj kapoor]

Originally Posted by PortCity

That is a good list MPC but where would they build it ? Demolish the Civic Center maybe ? My theory may go against the grain a little bit. I think that Mobile need to focus on attracting retail downtown and the interest in downtown residential living will increase. I was told that downtown residential living has grown. Though we have not had any new midrise or high-rise developments downtown as of lately but we have experienced a surge in historic restoration and renovation and that is just as major as a new tower in my book.

I also believe that Mobile need to capitalize and invest in it`s historic bones a lot more. I was riding in the De Tonti neighborhood today and I noticed that the bones of old Mobile was dug up and I hope that they don't cover them back up. And I will make a separate thread about that topic along with some questions and pictures later today. Every city has history that is unique in it`s own right but Mobile`s history is extensive and heavy. I think we need to attract more retail,offer a tax break that is hard to pass up;continue downtown renovation, impose a heavy fine on negligent property owners , and invest in our bones !

In Birmingham, as you mentioned in Mobile also, the residential started as renovation. Then went on to virtually rebuilding warehouses and other structures for true urban lofts. That was the true point of take off about ten years ago. Then they moved on to the nicer and larger older highrise buildings that lent themselves to being done as high priced condos.

At this stage a lot of new restaurants started opening and nearby watering holes. Also some galleries and small eclectic shops. In fact, almost all of Second Aven. North. The street where the first luxury tower renovation occurred.

At each level the response and success lead to the confidence to move forward and made it easier to acquire financing. New Federal and State laws for tax credits helped with that a lot.

Now we are in the midst of both some large restoration and new construction of midrise and highrise buildings for mostly apartments, as that is a tight market in Birmingham. Therefore the rents can and will be high.

It is at this stage that serious retail has not only started to come downtown, but that is now driving the building of new buildings to house both the retail and entertainment and housing.
The retail has included nationally known upscale restaurants and finally the Publix grocery that will be right in the middle of the predominant residential concentration.


I hope all of this makes sense as I wrote it. I wanted to give you an idea of the order in which this occurs .
I have observed this pattern in city after city. Yet, I have also observed many areas where people were convinced that you have to create something that will make the people move downtown.
It appears this is not true. Just provide a good product competitive prices with a level of quality and when all those are taken move on to the next step. It appears to be a ten to fifteen year process but of course will vary with the quality of life a city can sell to its residents.

I would point out that Publix is going in right in the location that they said for years they had no interest in. Also there are already two well established groceries on the edges of downtown, so they know they will have some competition.

I know this is long but I have written it to encourage all of you who love and are interested in downtown Mobile, as I am. The character is rich, who wouldn't want a nice place downtown. As per another thread, I just hope for a little more shoreline accessibility for pedestrians. (a short sighted mistake of city leaders of years gone by)

[verve57]

MrPortCity, PortCity and Raj, I like the things you all have stated. I agree that the twin attack of residential and retail are keys to creating the vibrant downtown that is needed. Greater incentives to help drive this development is needed from the city and county as stated. It was asked where would some of MPC's ideas be located, I think St. Louis Street, upper Royal Street area near the Post Office and Broad Street are prime areas for apartments, condos, grocery stores and other retail.

Waterfront development is also key to the city and is critical for Mobile to take advantage of the very thing that caused the city to be founded in this location in the first place. A development similar to the Railroad Park in Birmingham, Cascades Park in Tallahassee, Riverwalk in Columbus, GA and Chattanooga's waterfront area can be a catalyst to creating the momentum that's needed. Jogging trails, dog walk, spray ground, historical markers, sculpture, water taxi launch and other things could be placed in this area.

Drawing on the historical components that the city has will also be necessary. We don't realize how important the historical districts the city are to giving the city is unique flavor. Many friends and family that have visited the city are totally unaware of what we have to offer in our historic neighborhoods. Yes, we have lost a lot over the decades but we should now highlight even more what we still have left.

[MPC]

I agree verve57, the idea I presented was based off St. Louis St

[PortCity]

Originally Posted by raj kapoor

In Birmingham, as you mentioned in Mobile also, the residential started as renovation. Then went on to virtually rebuilding warehouses and other structures for true urban lofts. That was the true point of take off about ten years ago. Then they moved on to the nicer and larger older highrise buildings that lent themselves to being done as high priced condos.

At this stage a lot of new restaurants started opening and nearby watering holes. Also some galleries and small eclectic shops. In fact, almost all of Second Aven. North. The street where the first luxury tower renovation occurred.

At each level the response and success lead to the confidence to move forward and made it easier to acquire financing. New Federal and State laws for tax credits helped with that a lot.

Now we are in the midst of both some large restoration and new construction of midrise and highrise buildings for mostly apartments, as that is a tight market in Birmingham. Therefore the rents can and will be high.

It is at this stage that serious retail has not only started to come downtown, but that is now driving the building of new buildings to house both the retail and entertainment and housing.
The retail has included nationally known upscale restaurants and finally the Publix grocery that will be right in the middle of the predominant residential concentration.


I hope all of this makes sense as I wrote it. I wanted to give you an idea of the order in which this occurs .
I have observed this pattern in city after city. Yet, I have also observed many areas where people were convinced that you have to create something that will make the people move downtown.
It appears this is not true. Just provide a good product competitive prices with a level of quality and when all those are taken move on to the next step. It appears to be a ten to fifteen year process but of course will vary with the quality of life a city can sell to its residents.

I would point out that Publix is going in right in the location that they said for years they had no interest in. Also there are already two well established groceries on the edges of downtown, so they know they will have some competition.

I know this is long but I have written it to encourage all of you who love and are interested in downtown Mobile, as I am. The character is rich, who wouldn't want a nice place downtown. As per another thread, I just hope for a little more shoreline accessibility for pedestrians. (a short sighted mistake of city leaders of years gone by)

Wow great points Raj ! Downtown residential and office interest is growing so i hope the trend continue
to go up.

[PortCity]

Originally Posted by MrPortCity

It would be built close to the cbd, here is an update


Here is the location of the project

Agaian why are you not an Urban Planner or working for the Mobile Downtown Alliance or something !? Anyway what a great idea I tend to forget about the ugly surface lots in that area ( by the way they need to shoot who ever decided to detroy some of the city`s archietcual gems for a parking lot !) The surface lots between St.Louis and De Tonti would be perfect for what you are invsioning. I have always said that onece St.Louis get the much needed attention and investment that it needs any empty areas around it will began to develop just my theory. I believe St.Louis should be a residential loft/apartment/warehouse district.

[PortCity]

And Verve57 I think it would be a game changer to have a park near near downtown with waterfront access. I know we have Cooper but it would be great to have something on the scale of Birmingham's Rail Road Park with a waterfront maritime theme.

[MPC]

Originally Posted by PortCity

Agaian why are you not an Urban Planner or working for the Mobile Downtown Alliance or something !? Anyway what a great idea I tend to forget about the ugly surface lots in that area ( by the way they need to shoot who ever decided to detroy some of the city`s archietcual gems for a parking lot !) The surface lots between St.Louis and De Tonti would be perfect for what you are invsioning. I have always said that onece St.Louis get the much needed attention and investment that it needs any empty areas around it will began to develop just my theory. I believe St.Louis should be a residential loft/apartment/warehouse district.

Just imagine how great it would be to have it. I'm working on getting it designed in 3d. My newest revision has 16 blocks instead of 12, and it is around 1.2 million sqft and has almost 2,600 parking spaces. The total cost would be from $290-330 million but would be worth it. It could generate from $330-540 million in sales and the city could see $15-24 million in tax revenue. Anywhere from 1,200 to 2,000 permanent jobs.