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Old 10-05-2011, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Montana
448 posts, read 921,837 times
Reputation: 253

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that's 6 too many for me !
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Colorado
4,023 posts, read 4,732,502 times
Reputation: 8641
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Only seen about a half dozen this summer. One last week.
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 36,471,054 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by janab View Post
that's 6 too many for me !
If you are mindful of what you are doing, you'll get a warning (buzzing) and be able to spot them early. When you are out hiking or just working around the yard you must be alert. If your stupid and don't pay attention, you'll miss that buzzing and get into a bad situation.

When I run Timber, I've trained her to immediately load if I see one ahead. She's been outstanding and will load right up, sometimes when we're not even stopped. So I've spotted 3 or 4 of them while riding, but Timber has never been in danger. Closest she's gotten is about 25 ft and I gave her the break command and she immediately broke from the new found friend and loaded up.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Phenix City, Alabama
225 posts, read 246,585 times
Reputation: 186
Gosh EH... can I send Bruno to you to finish out his training!!?? lol. Dadburn fool dog is so stubborn. As many times as he has been walked and I have corrected him.. he still wants to lead. And I mean I have had to use some mighty harsh corrections too. He doesnt want to "stay". .. as soon as I move off or turn my back... he moves. The "leave it" command.. he understands but there are times he pushes it. and his aggression towards other dogs is ridiculous!
He's a smart dog. But he is just hard headed. I have had to resort to putting him on the chain now when he is outside because he has learned to jump the fence. I absolutely HATE chaining a dog up.
Dont have the money right now for a kennel and I would much rather see him have full use of the yard.
Mom says she hasnt seen any snakes around here. Thank goodness for that! I'd be afraid that would be one of the first things he got mixed up with.
Any suggestions for me about Bruno?

PS.. How's ya foot?
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:03 AM
 
5,798 posts, read 9,312,048 times
Reputation: 6009
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaBonnema View Post
Mom says she hasnt seen any snakes around here. Thank goodness for that! I'd be afraid that would be one of the first things he got mixed up with.
Any suggestions for me about Bruno?

PS.. How's ya foot?

MB, There are (supposedly) no rattlesnakes in the Idaho Panhandle, so I'd guess there aren't any around Libby, either. But it doesn't hurt to be careful...

Libby probably has a couple of dog training places--I'd do a 6 week training program with Bruno if I were you. Find a trainer who matches your own speed...I'd avoid the choke collar trainers...The Pets/Dogs forum here on CD is a really good source of dog training info!

Yes, EH, how's the foot doing?
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,543 posts, read 12,611,276 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaBonnema View Post
Gosh EH... can I send Bruno to you to finish out his training!!?? lol. Dadburn fool dog is so stubborn. As many times as he has been walked and I have corrected him.. he still wants to lead. And I mean I have had to use some mighty harsh corrections too. He doesnt want to "stay". .. as soon as I move off or turn my back... he moves. The "leave it" command.. he understands but there are times he pushes it. and his aggression towards other dogs is ridiculous!
He's a smart dog. But he is just hard headed. I have had to resort to putting him on the chain now when he is outside because he has learned to jump the fence. I absolutely HATE chaining a dog up.
Pro dog trainer here with over 40 years experience...

Bruno wants to go ahead of you because despite the corrections, you are NOT the boss or leader in this relationship -- HE is. That's also why he's destructive (the pack leader -- that's him -- protects the pack members, and when they go out of sight, the leader frets because he can't protect them anymore. THAT is what 'separation anxiety' actually is.) Aggression toward other dogs -- same thing. He's the leader, so he feels like he has to "protect" YOU from other dogs. (Some dogs are just dog-aggressive, but that's a different issue, and not typically expressed when the dog is under leadership control.)

STAY also requires trust in the leader -- the leader will come back; meanwhile an underling has to stay put and wait. Since he's the leader, he feels no need to "stay".

I can't teach you the correct leadership body language over the 'net, what you need is to find a Koehler-style trainer and hope you can learn it (some people can't due to how they're wired). A cookie/clicker trainer is just going to make matters worse, because in nature, the underling gives the treat TO THE BOSS. If you treat-train, what have you done??

Chaining dogs is not bad for them, Cornell University's veterinary school did a study and found exactly what I have -- it's not only NOT harmful, in fact being tied up is a calming influence on nervous or aggressive dogs, who behave a lot more jittery and aggressive from behind a fence than they do on the chain. And if you do the math you'll find an average chain actually gives the dog more room to move than does the average kennel.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,543 posts, read 12,611,276 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast View Post
Libby probably has a couple of dog training places--I'd do a 6 week training program with Bruno if I were you. Find a trainer who matches your own speed...I'd avoid the choke collar trainers...
This is actually WHY we have today's plague of out-of-control pets. Such animals used to be rare, back in the day of "old-fashioned" training. Now, they're the norm. It's the direct descendant of the "children should never be disciplined" (equating all discipline with 'abuse') school of child-rearing, and too often it produces the same sort of brat.

I speak from over 40 years and over 2000 dogs worth of professional experience.

And I can give a MUCH harsher correction -- or rather, Koehler-style, let the dog do it to himself -- with a flat collar than with a choke (which is fortunate, because when people bring me an outlaw, it's usually wearing a flat collar, or a choke that's WAY too big). It's all in knowing how to apply it. I don't have to "jerk" the dog, all I do is whenever he goes one way, I go the other, and let him find out for himself that he'd better watch me, not forge ahead of me (and if he doesn't watch me, it's his own damn fault when he gets trampled or hits the end of the leash). Takes about five minutes to get a chronic tugboat heeling gracefully and happily.

Then comes the hard part, retraining the owner.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Phenix City, Alabama
225 posts, read 246,585 times
Reputation: 186
Rez... THANK YOU!!! I see my problem! I was giving him treats and hugs and kisses. So I was basically kissing his Arse! LOL
Okie Dokie.. that is gonna stop as of now. Will give him GOOD BOY! when he does good. and no treats til AFTER the training session is over. Yes, I didnt stop to think about the range a chain would go when on a roataing stake. You are correct.. he will have much more travel room.
Glad I didnt buy that stupid clicker thingy.
Will also check into the Koehler method.
I have a flat adjustable nylon collar with a part choke on it.
So maybe I will also stop with the babying too until I have the BOSS issue under control.

Thank You so much for your input.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:06 AM
 
Location: NW Montana
6,258 posts, read 12,920,546 times
Reputation: 3435
Rez is good on his advice.
We have to not make the dog what he is not. He is not a human but is a servant of the human. They lose their mind, even the small ones if there is no leadership. Never let that dog go into the door first. Mine has to wait and be invited into the lap. It cracks people up but I say hey, mine will not be leaping on your kid!

Plueeeze stop talking about snakes!!!!
Heard from EH, under doc's care and things are moving forward.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Phenix City, Alabama
225 posts, read 246,585 times
Reputation: 186
Yes Mt-7.. I am so guilty of babying him. That was my mistake. I should have taught him obediance first. But at the time that I got Bruno I was also severely depressed and not my usual Bossy self.
So now I have to correct MY behavior and re train myself and Bruno.
I have never really trained a dog before. I dont think I have done too bad..(on some things) and Bruno is intelligent so I am sure he will catch on quick.
Also, castration might help.. since I will NOT be breeding him.
So far he has been outside on the chain since 6AM and he whined for about 30 minutes. I shushed him and he has been calm and quiet since. NO barking either.(it's now 11:30 am here).
I will read up on the Koehler method and try myself at first. If I find I am having NO results then I will have to get help. I want a well balanced well behaved dog. Not an idiot pooch that is a holy terror. Especially one thats as big as Bruno.. lol 70 pounds and still growing!
You guys are some really cool folks and thanks again so much for the helpful info.

PS. Glad to know EH is doing ok.
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