Let's visit on the Porch II (Billings, Bozeman: consumer, what does, exhaust)

[Reziac]

Woah! That is one serious clean room. What did they make in it that it needed to be a mile long??

[Reziac]

Awright, what's with the freakin' snowstorm yesterday??

More on the Bundy Ranch thing:

This is a cached copy of the BLM page that was removed as of yesterday:

Cattle Trespass Impacts

If that disappears (as have all the linked pages except for the closure maps), here's a screenshot.

And here's a video that specifically debunks and supports various claims:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFio...layer_embedded

Solar installations and Harry Reid, that's the ticket. Solar is presently the biggest energy money in the southwestern desert. It's notable that in SoCal, where one might expect the most stringent restrictions, solar construction has been pretty much exempt from the usual environmental mitigation requirements (which has turned the western Antelope Valley into a dust bowl, which it never was before).

These maps are interesting (click to enlarge):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_land#United_States

[MTSilvertip]

Been watching that Bundy thing, no angels here, but throw Reid and his boy and cronies into the mix and you have a sure fire receipe for disaster.

Hey Elk, for all your trips you might want to look at this
Elio Motors – It Just Might Be For Real, So to Check it Out, TTAC Rolls Consumer Reports Style and Puts Skin in the Game | The Truth About Cars

New car called the Elio. A reverse tricyle configuration, inline driver passanger seating, front wheel drive, it supposed to make 84 MPG on the highway.

Price new is $6800.

I was worried about the safety, but it is supposed to have a 5 star rating using a roll cage for the passenger compartment and side/front airbags.
also has front and back crumple zones.

It is classed as a motorcycle, but as you like the way your 4 wheeler handles, this might be something to look at for all those trips to Rapid City and Billings. Just put Timber in the passenger seat and go!!

I want to look at one for driving back and forth from Helena to Big Timber

[Reziac]

Yeah, there are 2 or 3 of those mini-cars presently pushing to get on the market. The biggest hangup seems to be the fuzzy area between motorcycles and cars... why not license 'em same as 4-wheelers and the like?

Fun reading, tho occasionally a little slanted politically:
Encyclopedia of the Great Plains |

Here's a fun talk on the Constitution -- too bad more schools don't get this fellow to come give his talk:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb7Or-f62jY

[MTSilvertip]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Yeah, there are 2 or 3 of those mini-cars presently pushing to get on the market. The biggest hangup seems to be the fuzzy area between motorcycles and cars... why not license 'em same as 4-wheelers and the like?

As far as I have seen, ATVs are licensed as motorcycles.

These reverse triks should be considered the same as the reverse trikes put out by Can-Am and others.
Yeah they are enclosed, and the engine is up front instead of underneath or behind, but the basic configuration is the same.

Personally I would prefer one of these kinds of cars as they have a roof and windshield wipers, and a heater!

All very important for driving in Montana

[Reziac]

I know some states have, or at least used to have, a "scooter license" that was for these low-powered motorized bicycles, scooters, some ATVs, and the like that are more than muscle power but less than a dirt bike. Tho having never owned one of those gadgets, I didn't pay much attention.

I think enclosed one-person vehicles are a great idea for commuters (tho the price probably ought to come down some to be realistic). That little detail of a roof and heat and windshield wipers, yeah! But the issue a lot of places is that commute traffic goes 70mph, and most of these gadgets can't do that.

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

As far as I have seen, ATVs are licensed as motorcycles.

These reverse triks should be considered the same as the reverse trikes put out by Can-Am and others.
Yeah they are enclosed, and the engine is up front instead of underneath or behind, but the basic configuration is the same.

Personally I would prefer one of these kinds of cars as they have a roof and windshield wipers, and a heater!

All very important for driving in Montana

If they can build them at the proposed price point they should do very well, especially with millenials who are less concerned about cars than we were.

My Prius purchase was mainly based on the math. I own a 98 Dodge diesel and had been using it as a primary vehicle (because I can never NOT own a truck). However the annual cost was really, really high. Factoring that I put 15,000 miles on the road a year my cost broke down like this:

Truck
Fuel at 19mpg= 789gal per year x 4.00 p/gal= $3,158
Maintenance (tires = $700 every three years, break down costs average $750 p/yr)= $983 p/yr
Total annual operating cost for the truck= $4,141

Prius
Fuel at 45mpg=333gal p/yr x 3.25 p/gal= $1,083
Maintenance (tires, saving $800 p/yr to cover poss battery replacement every 5 years, general wear and tear)- $1,250 p/yr
Total annual operating cost for Prius= $2,333

That's assuming my battery goes crappola and might cost $6,000 every 5 years. I'm still cutting costs in half and I still own my truck but only use it to hunt, play or go to the hardware store.

The reason I didn't get a cheaper full efficient non-hybrid car was because the Prius has a suprising amount of cargo capacity. With the rear seat folded I can haul 20-25 bags of pellets, lumber, dogs- you name it. It is a very efficient mule.

So I can see where a single seat concept like this might make sense for singles. It's hard to say no when you sit down and do the math!

[MTSilvertip]

I would agree, and those were some of the questions I had.

This is a 2 seater, front and back, $6,800 is cheaper than a lot of motorcycles, far less than any new car,
They have a top speed of 104 mph, so highway speeds are not a problem.

My biggest concern was with the safety of the thing, but they state it is 5 star due to the collapse zones, roll cage and side/front airbags.
I don't like the single door, but understand the reasoning for structural integrity, It does have a small cargo compartment behind the passenger seat, and the passenger seat can be folded down for more room as well.

My truck makes 20MPG on the hwy, and driving it back and forth to work usually runs about $100/month.
If the Elio makes 84 MPG, and around 50 in town, I could probably cut my cost to around $30/month.

One of their sales gimmicks is to set it up so you use your charge card to buy gas, you are charged 3x the cost of the fuel, and the fuel is paid for, the balance goes to the payment on your car.

Their reasoning is that their car has 3 times the gas mileage, so you are saving that 2/3rds off the top so that can go to the purchase of the car.

My pickup was $10k used, a new vehicle for $6,800 that is under warrenty and could save a lot of wear and tear on my truck to extend it's life, and save roughly $840 a year on commuting costs alone, Got to say I am interested.

I would want to see more data on it's performance and reliability, but it will be an American made car constructed in Shreveport, LA. with 90% American made parts.

As much as I drive, it is definately an option if it's any good.
Probably not a good car for a family, but as it's just the wife and I it would be fine.

Wonder how it handles icy roads....

[Reziac]

$700 every three years is about what I figured out for the old truck ('78 F100) but it's pretty cheap to maintain... over its first two decades it hardly ever needed any work. Nearly all the maint in the past decade has been stuff that's plumb wore out. It'll probably be somewhat less than $700/3 yrs for a while considering just about everything has been rebuilt by now.

Just did the bearings and front brakes on the F350... replaced rotors too as they looked like original equipment and were getting a little uneven... fixed the wobble when I'd brake soft. Could have run the brake pads a bit longer but had the whole thing apart for the bearings anyway... extra $150 now and waste a few months worth of brake pads (tho two were cracked so could have gone any time) or a different extra $300 later ... opted to just get it over with. Replaced brake lines too as they were evidently original and were rotted out.

Did I mention I figured out the F350's odometer is bogus? runs close to 20% short of reality. On the plus side, that means it gets better gas mileage than I thought (best case up to 16mpg, how's that for a gas 460!) On the minus side, depending on how long this has been going on, it might have as much as 295,000 miles on it (odometer says 246,000). Since it's all been rebuilt, I guess I don't care.

There's a guy here with a 1960-something pickup that he figures has over 2 MILLION miles on it... across several engines. Looks rough but so long as it runs...!!

[MTSilvertip]

Some trucks do really well on fuel. My V-10 Dodge routinely was 17 hwy, (until I blew the head gasket ) my little 360 Dodge V-8 gas that I have now will do 20MPG hwy as long as I keep my foot out of the carborator, fuel injector, whatever the heck they have these days

My V-10 would cost about $1500 to replace the head gasket and do all that work on, and it ran really well for me for a long time. It has 300K + on the odometer.

My Brother has an old Dodge Cummins he runs between Big Timber and Bozeman every day for work. It has nearly 600K on it, and still does around 25MPG. As a modifier though, he is a mechanic so he does all the work on it and maintenance himself so he keeps the running parts in top shape.

The body and interior are getting pretty rough though.

If fuel wasn't as expensive, I would happily drive my truck no problem, but with the fuel prices on their way up with no end in sight, something for routine driving that makes good milage, well, I have to consider that.