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Sad that you would judge people based on the state from which they came.
Quote:
Originally Posted by decembergirl Individualism was a SIN!!
Guess that "individualism" you talk of wanting doesn't apply to people in Montana if they come from another state?
Puh-lease...I did not cast the hippy stone first, I only served it back to it's originator. I do not judge people based on what state they come from unless they throw down the h-word. Then I am going to point out that they might be considered one themselves.
Yes, I'm happy to find a little like-mindedness here as well. I'm becoming partial to the MT Forums these days (not that I spend much time on C-D, though) simply because those who may come here to inform themselves about Montana should have more than one picture to look at--no ego, no exaggerations, no emotionalist defenses of everything that's wrong with MT, no abstracts.
The Hi-Line is pretty funny. It's definitely different (I don't know about "individualistic", haha), but seriously, some of the most fun Montanans I've known have been Hi-Liners. And then there's the accent...
The East/West divide is definitely a reality in Montana, but it doesn't seem to be all that volatile, at least not yet. I think that's subject to change as Montana's population distribution becomes more urban in the South-Central/Western side of the state as is projected to happen over the next couple of decades. Rural Montana is dying, and being where you are, you probably know what I mean.
What accent?
Rural MT was dying 20 years ago. I think it could be brought back (to a degree), but people would have to consider *gasp* some different ways of thinking that they just don't seem to like. I want to see growing hemp legalized. I hate pot, but hemp is a good crop. We should grow it. Why the heck not? It'll never happen.
The "cultish" ideals I referenced will surface in any discussion of Montana's culture where a collection of nativist Montanans discuss what Montana is and/or what "true" Montanans are supposed to think and do. Try a little research. It's all right here. You aren't likely to view any of it as cultish, I realize, because based on your OP about "vermin" and whatnot, it's no stretch for me to assume that you would agree with it.
Everybody has the right to their opinion, but that doesn't mean their opinion is right. Some folks embrace and love what Montana is, others only fixate on what it isn't.
Not all Montanans care about agriculture by the way; in fact, these days, I'll bet that most Montanans under 40 have probably never done a day of farm/ranching-labor in their lives, and I don't see that changing in future generations. (Feel free to prove me wrong, though. It's not like I've been here a while).
Montana's largest industry is still agriculture, so it still impacts the whole of the population whether people are interested in it or not. Montanakids | Agriculture And Business
Now as you know, Montana is not Florida. It will never be Florida, or New York, or California, or any other far-away dystopia that the nativist crowd and their sympathizers are constantly warning us about. For future reference, I don't take any such comparisons seriously.
People are more worried about the draconian laws that come from those states more than anything else. The weather is too inclimate for the masses that go to the sunshine states and there isn't a major harbor for international commerce to call people in like New York has.
Well, from what I've observed over the last five years or so, there seems to be a cultural preservation crisis in this state that has been promulgated almost exclusively by the extreme faction of Montana's political Right. Daines, a hyper-conservative imbecile extraordinaire in the recent tradition of Conrad Burns is, I think, an unfortunate reflection of this, as is our frighteningly corrupt and underhanded Legislature under the Republican majorities of the last three sessions.
I know both men, both good decent men. Their politics don't match yours, but that is no reason to question their intelligence as they can make very good arguments for their side.
Montana's Democrats suck overall too, but guess what? Art Wittich, Matt Rosendale, Austin Knudsen, Debby Barrett, Sarah Laszloffy, Scott Sales, Jeff Essman, Gordon Vance, etc., etc., etc aren't Democrats, nor is it Democrats appointing these extremists to positions of leadership in the legislative branch. (Thank God for Governor Bullock.)
Because of the work I do, I get called to testify in front of legislative committees all the time, and I know and work with the folks listed above on a lot of their bills.
I don't always agree with them or their interpretation of legislation and it's impact, but I never doubt for an instant their sincerity in wanting to to the best for the state.
Art Wittich for instance doesn't have a great personality, and if you're going to argue with him you better bring your A game and have your facts straight. He doesn't change his mind easily, but he is very willing to listen to a better idea if you have one. Coming at him or the others with political hyperbole will get you no-place quick.
While I don't really like him personally, if I were ever in a jam and needed a lawyer, his name would be at the top of the list as if he takes your case or cause, he will represent you to the best of his ability and very capably. He's super intelligent, and committed to doing the best he can for his constituents that elected him.
Steve Bullock is a very nice man to talk to. His business acumaine is questionable, and the fact he takes his orders from the DNC make me far more suspect of him than of the Legislators you listed.
Most of that, aside from the Montana-centric culture warriors and their issues, is something I see as a consequence of strong aversions toward certain policies of the Obama Administration rather than a strong majority of Montana voters being dogmatic right-wingnuts themselves. I have plenty of reasons to assume that not to be true.
With Montana's strong aversion to overreaching government, yeah, obama isn't very popular here away from Missoula and the reservations.
Libertarians, Constitutionalists and Conservatives prefer to do things their own way and don't like being told what they can and can't do, so obama's brand of socialism light isn't really a welcome ideology.
Max Baccus wrote obamacare and knew he would be kicked out of office if he ran again because of stabbing Montana in the back like that, so he retired and was paid off with an ambassadorship to china.
As for Carhartts...whatever. It was clearly a jab at Montana's roughneck sub-culture, not a general degradation of people who work outdoors. I've even hung out with a few people who wear them.
Political squabbles can be very petty, yes, but politics and ideology are constantly implied on these threads by the same few members all the time, with rarely any dissent. Getting into the nitty-gritty of Montana's politics, unfortunately, shows that Montanans may not be the insular, wholesome, traditionalist types of people that Montana eccentrics portray them to be.
Most Montanan's are pretty traditionalist, including the ones that move here to escape the "enlightened progressive" hells that have taken over other areas of the country, so yeah, someone with leftist leanings is going to find it uncomfortable here as they have opinions that aren't popular outside city limits of a couple of the larger towns.
Most of us, me included, would rather ignore politics as I don't want to force anybody to do anything, and I don't want them telling me what I should believe. Pretty simple actually.
Lastly, your initial rant about "vermin" suggests that you've indeed brought some baggage. Probably a lot of it.
Everybody has the right to an opinion, that doesn't mean they have an opinion that is right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by decembergirl
What accent?
Rural MT was dying 20 years ago. I think it could be brought back (to a degree), but people would have to consider *gasp* some different ways of thinking that they just don't seem to like. I want to see growing hemp legalized. I hate pot, but hemp is a good crop. We should grow it. Why the heck not? It'll never happen.
You could grow Flax which is legal and has pretty much all the benefits of hemp, plus it's legal.
Both hemp and flax though need a lot of water which isn't always available in eastern Montana, but flax requires a lot less than hemp.
Perhaps when the Bakken reaches the west side of the formation just north of Great Falls, there will be enough jobs and money to replenish the once vibrant communities of the high line.
Everybody has the right to an opinion, that doesn't mean they have an opinion that is right.
You could grow Flax which is legal and has pretty much all the benefits of hemp, plus it's legal.
Both hemp and flax though need a lot of water which isn't always available in eastern Montana, but flax requires a lot less than hemp.
Perhaps when the Bakken reaches the west side of the formation just north of Great Falls, there will be enough jobs and money to replenish the once vibrant communities of the high line.
I hope so anyway.
The Bakken's dying too and even if it wasn't we don't refer to what it does as "replenishing". A guy I know was offered $120K to go work there and said turning them down was the smartest move he ever made since they are starting the bust phase of their boom. And my niece was taught by Sherry Arnold.
I sure don't see the "ignoring politics" much in your post. Seems the opposite to me.
The Bakken's dying too and even if it wasn't we don't refer to what it does as "replenishing". A guy I know was offered $120K to go work there and said turning them down was the smartest move he ever made since they are starting the bust phase of their boom. And my niece was taught by Sherry Arnold.
I sure don't see the "ignoring politics" much in your post. Seems the opposite to me.
And it's hi-line.
By replenishing I was referring to bringing back some of the scattered families from those areas who had to leave to find work. I would love to see little towns like Chinook have a robust population of say 4000 people. I would like to see some of the other small towns that had to consolidate their schools have enough population to again have a hometown high school.
I don't want to bring the stain of civilization into there, just enough people to keep the old wonderful towns going for those families that have lived there since their ancestors homesteaded it.
My wife's family knew Sherry Arnold very well too, but that is the progress brought in by civilization. You bring in lots of people, you get crime as well.
Bust is a mis-nomer, they are simply moving from the drilling stage to the establishe wells that can be monitored by a single team using computers for several sites while they still work and produce the oil we need.
The saudis didn't like the amount being produced, so they flooded the market with oil to drop the price below where it's economically feasible for fracking. The oil market also thought that obama would cut a deal with Iran, (which he did), which would open up those fields again too.
So they stopped drilling new wells in the Bakken and are leaving the oil in the ground til the price goes back up. Once it does, they'll start drilling on the Montana side of the boarder because that's where the next oil is.
There have been a lot of mineral rights leased or sold from Sidney to Great Falls, and those companies wouldn't be spending that money unless they planned on using those rights to drill in the future.
I would dearly love to ignore politics, I despise the manuvering and the treachery involved, but because of my work, I'm neck deep in it most of the time, so I really understand how much it stinks.
The worst thing about politics is that nobody will accept that somebody has a different point of view. I don't care about most of the "big" issues of the day, but I have to hear about it constantly no matter how pedantic and petty they really are. To somebody, they are the cornerstones of the world and if I don't agree, then I'm stupid or ignorant or bigoted or whatever.
I too have offered big bucks to go to other states and work to because I have a very specific skillset, so what? I prefer the quality of life I have in Montana, which was my main point all along. I ain't rich, but I am happy.
I also know it's Hi-line, I was just making sure I wasn't talking to some out of stater trying to cause trouble. It's happened before, and only somebody that knows that area would have picked up on that little "typo"
I am living in Florida now. A small town, Haines City. We want out. What is your story if I may ask? Where in Florida are you from? When did you leave Florida? What kind of farming? Oranges? Citrus?
Fyi: We want to moved out to Montana.
Hey ebn,
I grew up in South Florida, in the small speck of an agricultural town of Clewiston. My father was the head of harvesting on a large family farm. They grew mostly vegetables. We relocated to North Florida as I was in my teens as my dad took a management position with a dairy farm, to a small town named Green Cove Springs.
We moved to MT about a year ago. The dairy sold out to a real estate developement company and closed down. The small family farms are all gone, and everywhere you look there is new home construction. The schools are overcrowded, and crime is way out of control. We have 3 very close family friends who are in the process of "escaping to MT" right now.
Since there has been some questions about it, I will expand on my usage of the word Vermin. I choose this word to remove any racial undertones certain phrases have. I am commenting on the behavior of certain groups. They are characterized by the following.
1. A SEVERE lack of work ethic.
2. DEPENDANCY on other's for their very existance.
3. CONSTANT complaining about how bad their life is, but absolutly NO EFFORT to make their life better.
4. ABSOLUTE HATRED of anyone they percieve to have a better life than them.
5. NO RESPECT for the rights of others, or the rule of law.
6. A PETTY me first attitude toward life.
Having been in MT for almost a year, I still can't believe how amazing this state is.
By the way, MT doesn't have crime like where I am from. I will give you some examples.
After mowing my front yard, I parked my push mower in the driveway and went inside to get a drink of water. I came back out 5 mins later and the mower was gone. It was still blazing hot and broad daylight, but that didn't deter them. We had about 15 potted plants in the front of our home, I came home from work one day and ALL of them were gone, including the lawn ornaments. My neighbors AC unit was stolen off of the side of their home one night, while they were in bed. Our church we attended had to relocate the AC units to the roof because 4 were stolen in 6 months. My window in my truck was busted 4 times in 2 years to steal change I had in the cupholder. One of my coworkers was carjacked at gunpoint at a gas station, the crooks were never caught. I could go on and on.
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