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Old 07-26-2011, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,420 posts, read 16,950,133 times
Reputation: 9512

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Just returned from a 10-day visit in your beautiful state, mostly in the western areas, Missoula, Kalispell, Glacier, Mineral County. Got the distinct feeling that there's growing resentment to the intrusion of outsiders into that region -- particularly from California, Washington, Oregon, et al. A lot of the natives expressed frustration over the rising price of real estate being driven by newcomers, second-homers, etc. when the economy isn't really able to support people who've been there all their lives. Just not a lot of high-paying jobs in that area, no?

Thoughts? Tragic if Montana goes the way of some of the other Western states ruined by outsiders.
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:56 PM
 
213 posts, read 598,032 times
Reputation: 180
You said you just returned from this trip? Interesting, because the "growing resentment" you cite are nothing new... we've been hearing that since the 80's. The damage to the real estate market from the local perspective was already done quite awhile ago - but since the economic slump a few places have begun moving toward affordable again (or, I should say, affordable to those lucky enough to still have jobs).

My guess is that the people you talked to were the ones who moved here 20-30 years ago, the same ones Montanans complained about back then. Now, they're the ones complaining about the "outsiders."
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Next stop Antarctica
1,799 posts, read 2,428,777 times
Reputation: 2075
I have been reading about this for a few years now and it has always intrigued me as to how "outsiders" can ruin a place, i know they buy up the properties but aren't the Montanans the ones that are selling and making money also the "outsiders" do bring money into the state giving the economy a boost,so what is the problem there?
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Old 07-26-2011, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,294 posts, read 3,339,186 times
Reputation: 4824
I'll make a few comments (in Dark Red)within your post to convey my own personal, humble opinions as related to the area here in Ravalli County..... (and the attitude toward those who have moved here since about 1980 from out-of-state)..... that I know quite well.

Bear in mind, I'm referring to those folks that did not move here because they liked what they found and wanted to keep it that way......I'm referring to those that brought with them, "their ideas" as to how they would like certain aspects of this area and certain aspects of the "existing life-style" to change....to suit their desires. These are the folks that have caused the resentment that you sensed.


I found a piece of land here in 1975 and purchased it (on contract) in 1976 for retirement purposes. Then things changed...my job back in Colorado..... (CO was getting too crowded anyway)...... was eliminated due to a merger. So we moved here in early 1980...I built my own home (using all local subs and locally acquired materials)......and then re-joined the "work-a-day" work force by taking a job with an out of state company, that required extensive travel, but kept me in the same industrial field that I was familiar with................Then after 40 yrs working............I retired in the home I had built and still am living in it............AND still haven't changed a thing in this area.....because I liked it the way it was when I found it......and want to keep it that way.

I have kept my property just as wild as the day I bought it.
I have not paved my driveway.
I have not cut down any trees.
I helped the local economy (by the way I build my home).
I used local bank(s) for construction loan(s) etc
I do not let my dog(s) run free..have a 10 x 20 foot outside dog run.

In other words, I'm not the type of transplant that the old time Bitterroot Valley natives had (and have to this day) a problem with. Sure it sounds like I'm bragging......No, I'm trying to explain the difference in why people have moved here.....AND what they've done and the impression(s) they have established after being here a while.

Really, it's pretty simple: Move here from anywhere, BUT ..leave all your -out-of-state- baggage and ideas at the State Line



Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
Just returned from a 10-day visit in your beautiful state, mostly in the western areas, Missoula, Kalispell, Glacier, Mineral County. Got the distinct feeling that there's growing resentment to the intrusion of outsiders into that region yes, there has been since about 1979-- particularly from California, Washington, Oregon, et al. A lot of the natives expressed frustration over the rising price of real estate being driven by newcomers, second-homers, etc. when the economy isn't really able to support people who've been there all their lives.And don't forget about the tremendous rise in R.E. Taxes due to the un-realistic valuation of unimproded acerage. Just not a lot of high-paying jobs in that area, no? Not just a lack of High-Paying-jobs.......a lack of jobs of any kind. When the "greenies" and "arm-chair" enviromentaists contribute to the shut-down of Mining, Timber, Ranching etc.....what happens: high unemployment & out-of-state................Oh, I bettter shut up before I really let you know what I think.

Thoughts? Tragic if Montana goes the way of some of the other Western states ruined by outsiders.
....Take a hard look at Colorado................If only you had the opportunity to know what the Front Range of Colorado was like in the 1960s and contrast it to what it is like today...: Ft Collins, Loveland, Broomfield, Boulder; Denver, Parker, Woodland Park, Colorado Springs etc,etc,etc! I watched (and lived in)that
entire area from 1965 on into 1980...............IMHO, a total transformation from " a desireable place to live" to "a most un-desireable place to live"......primarily due to the direct and indirect effects of misguided, uninformed and selfish-minded people and their greed. .......I guess after almost 80 years of living.........I'm a little "close-minded" and still abide by the what so many of the old-timers in this area say: If it ain't broke....don't try fixin' it or make any changes.


..
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Old 07-26-2011, 05:51 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,286,822 times
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My family has been here for generations as well as my husbands. We have family from one end of the state to the other. Here on the western side we are seeing alot of "second homes" going up, carved into hillsides and mountainsides that USED to be the view from our homes. Money (alot of it) can pretty much buy whatever you want here as the economy is down. Families who sacrifice alot to remain here are finding it harder and harder to compete with the folks from other states with larger economies. Personally speaking, we will never leave Montana. We have watched the land around us sold to the highest bidder (most are out of state). The land around us doesn't even come close to resembling what these people say is the reason they moved here. Huge houses, hobby farms (with way too many horses for the land to sustain), eco-cars that WE pull out of the snowdrifts and beyond their years delinquent children who want nothing more than to bully our children because they don't want to be in "Stickville". Most out of staters try changing towns into what they moved away from. They should just move back if that's what they really want. I must add that all people are not like this, have dear friends who moved here but adapted to the way of life here. I also don't judge until I get to know a person but it's getting harder and harder.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:46 PM
 
3 posts, read 8,311 times
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considering that "outsiders" are ruining every place
including New York City... but NYC should be wiped off the face of the planet anyway.
then YES... "outsiders" always ruin everything.

but what is your definition of an "outsider"?
would that be someone like me? a New Yorker... who's fed up with NYC-life? and wants to become a "Montan-ite"?
or a new yorker who wants to move to montana and take NYC with him?
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:41 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
7,720 posts, read 9,018,166 times
Reputation: 11083
Outsiders are a double-edged sword. Yes, the unfortunate fact is that the cost of living has gone up in the areas mentioned. By the time I was old enough to have ever even thought of making a living in Montana the cost of living had become prohibitive. However, it had become prohibitive because the wages do not keep up with the cost of living in that state for many jobs. I'm not sure if that's the outsiders' faults or not. Also, if there is one good thing about outsiders coming in, it's that they have brought some new ideas.

Last edited by NDak15; 07-26-2011 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:35 AM
 
Location: State of General Disarray
837 posts, read 1,282,414 times
Reputation: 1377
Outsiders ruined North America.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:08 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,286,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cushla View Post
I have been reading about this for a few years now and it has always intrigued me as to how "outsiders" can ruin a place, i know they buy up the properties but aren't the Montanans the ones that are selling and making money also the "outsiders" do bring money into the state giving the economy a boost,so what is the problem there?
Montanans are selling these properties because they can no longer afford/compete with the outsiders. I also tend to disagree with those landowners who sell off a section or two to developers who turn around and divide the land up into 20 acre (mini-ranchettes) for out of staters to feel like they are living the Montana dream. There was a time when land meant everything and owners were willing to fight for it. More people=economy boost but also means competition for all contributing to the economy. Let's not even get into how "locals" are expected to conform/change to suit the out of staters views and ways of life in most cases. I know I'll get blasted on this one by those who say "I moved here in ???? and have never expected anyone to change". There are a few who move here for the actual Montana way of life but very few from my personal experiences.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:11 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,286,822 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Village_Idiot View Post
considering that "outsiders" are ruining every place
including New York City... but NYC should be wiped off the face of the planet anyway.
then YES... "outsiders" always ruin everything.

but what is your definition of an "outsider"?
would that be someone like me? a New Yorker... who's fed up with NYC-life? and wants to become a "Montan-ite"?
or a new yorker who wants to move to montana and take NYC with him?

Yep, you got it. It's not Monan-ite It's MONTANAN. If you despise New York so much, leave it there. This is MONTANA, NOT NEW YORK. You obviously want to leave so don't bring it here. That's the big problem is that folk's want to leave some horrible state and move here but they also want to bring everything about that horrible state they are wanting to move out of here.
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