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Hey JOEJOE, get agrip my friend. Do you think the world revolves around you? I was born and raised in the NW, ID<MT<WY, its all "home" to me. I have land in both ID&MT. how much land do you own? fairly well off? good if so. now go find the local good ole boys and make sure they dont sell off any more land to outsiders. maybe they will then sell me that 10,000ac ranch for alot less. 10million is way out of my reach. believe me I do feel your pain & concerns. Instead of trying to chase off outsiders, try have the locals not sell to them. also don't hire them regardless of there experience. Good luck.
Hey JOEJOE, get agrip my friend. Do you think the world revolves around you? I was born and raised in the NW, ID<MT<WY, its all "home" to me. I have land in both ID&MT. how much land do you own? fairly well off? good if so. now go find the local good ole boys and make sure they dont sell off any more land to outsiders. maybe they will then sell me that 10,000ac ranch for alot less. 10million is way out of my reach. believe me I do feel your pain & concerns. Instead of trying to chase off outsiders, try have the locals not sell to them. also don't hire them regardless of there experience. Good luck.
Why would I think the world revolves around me ? And I don't have any land. I'm not sure how the good old boys selling off there land, comes into the argument...I thought we all new that. Yup they sell it off, I don't get your point.
I'm just stating what is happening, who, how, and what causes it to happen doesn't change that fact that it's happening, and it is so painfully obvious.
And who's trying to run off outsiders, let me put it this way...if you had two people trying to fly fish in the same small hole and just getting in each others way, and if there is another nice hole just down the river, any intelligent and respectable person would just simply shuffle off down river, and you'd both have a better day of it, and probably would wanna talk about it later over a beer. Or you both could just try to bunch up in the same hole............If you get my analogy. If not, well maybe we can get you another one.
And I don't get why you mentioned you were born here, do you get extra points for bring that up ? But best of fishing to you.
JoeJoe ~
Exactly what other areas are you speaking about? Montana is the
4th largest state in the country, with a population of less than a million. I live in Orange County, CA with a population of over 3 million. Montana is 184 times larger than Orange County. Please don't tell me about being crowded. I want to move out of here because we CANNOT afford to buy a house here. So we won't be those people who come and push up the cost of houses up there. We don't have the money to do that. My aunt and uncle and grandmother live up there and can't wait for us to move near them. I hope the other people we meet will be friendlier than you.
JoeJoe ~
Exactly what other areas are you speaking about? Montana is the
4th largest state in the country, with a population of less than a million. I live in Orange County, CA with a population of over 3 million. Montana is 184 times larger than Orange County. Please don't tell me about being crowded. I want to move out of here because we CANNOT afford to buy a house here. So we won't be those people who come and push up the cost of houses up there. We don't have the money to do that. My aunt and uncle and grandmother live up there and can't wait for us to move near them. I hope the other people we meet will be friendlier than you.
I think the boys are just frustrated at the current state of affairs that exists here.
Granted, there are many who come here and attempt to change the way things are... to suit themselves for the moment. All the while, never taking into consideration that there are people other than themselves that live here too.
My thoughts are such that we here in Montana may indeed experience a windfall of sorts when the bottom falls out of this most recent boom.
Prices will fall through the floor, the hotsy totsy wanna-be millionaires will go running home to ma-ma bankrupt, and nice homes will become affordable as a result.
Sure, the ugly eyesores like Missoula and Bozeman will remain, but we will eventually get around to cleaning up the mess of it all. Just like we always do every time out of state developers decide to rape our state.
When you get here, you will experience friendly, helpful folks.
You will be free to live your life in peace...... two things we prize highly around here....... freedom and peace.
We aren't ready for "infrastructure" per se', as even at this moment, our state legislature is contemplating giving our one billion dollar surplus back to us...... and we will gladly take it back..... afterall, it's ours, we paid it.
Better we have it, than the state to take it for use with regard to infrastructure..... The growth has already ebbed on the west side incidently, and things are indeed slowing down...... Our little boom will soon be drawing to a close.... and all of those insidious little out of state developers will leave us......
Work to make your dreams come true and don't ever give up.
Though we be somewhat lawless and freebooting, we admire the strengths and fortitude of those who are willing to work in order to make their dreams come true.
Now then.... we've got to figure out just exactly where we can hide Missoula and Bozeman...... Hmmmm..... this is a quandry now, isn't it?
I suppose we could attempt to bury them in the playgrounds up at Libby, like we did with all of that vermiculite.... or better yet, we might attempt to fill the almighty Pit with them.... not sure they would fit though, really...heh heh... Oh well, we'll figure what to do with those places someday, I'm sure....
Well maybe I'll luck out and the "boom" will end in about 6 years, when I am ready to move Maybe I should wait on buying property....but with my luck it will keep rising ;(
Exactly what other areas are you speaking about? Montana is the
4th largest state in the country, with a population of less than a million. I live in Orange County, CA with a population of over 3 million. Montana is 184 times larger than Orange County. Please don't tell me about being crowded. I want to move out of here because we CANNOT afford to buy a house here. So we won't be those people who come and push up the cost of houses up there. We don't have the money to do that. My aunt and uncle and grandmother live up there and can't wait for us to move near them. I hope the other people we meet will be friendlier than you.
First off if you have family here, please do come and join them if you/they need you, after all what is more important than family.
If you just want to move someplace to get out of where you are, and it is bad, then I don't blame you for wanting that either.
Montana is Montana because of what it is, the big wide open spaces, or to but it simply, it is un-crowded, crowd it up and it ain't Montana any more, it's that simple, it may be a very big state but the populations are concentrated in certain areas and valleys, so it tends to feel alot smaller than it really is, which is my point. It seems everyone wants to move to Montana now, it's vague, it's in fashion. And it really isn't doing anyone any good anymore, for those who live here now or those wanting to come here just to crowd it up and ruin it even more, that's not why we love Montana, we love of it's for its un-crowed atmosphere, no one comes here because of the crowds, that's not the lure.
Yes there are nice place left in america, and we can all spread out and enjoy them, we can enjoy that uncrowded feeling. I'd be an a**hole to say I want it all for myself.
Simpley put what I'm saying is, if a place is experiencing problems due to 'growth' issues, don't move there, you won't be doing yourself a favor or the people who live there any favore, in contrast if you move to a place that doesn't have 'growth' issues, than people naturaly will be much more welcoming and appreciative of your arrival in the community.
Where are those places ? Well I drive from western Montana to the southwest every so often I go thru lots of really nice places , laid back places, uncrowed places, cheap places, and I say to myself "if I had it to do all over again, I'd move here".....you know we don't all have to pile into Montana, especially into the already crowed and over-run areas and valleys, ie Bozeman, Missoula, Flathead.
I don't want to upset anyone, or make anyone feel unwelcome, I just want to preserve Montana or what's left of it, and have us all enjoy our lives. But we are ruining this lovely state, make not mistake about it.
Last edited by JoeJoeMan; 01-31-2007 at 01:03 AM..
"As of 2005, Montana has an estimated population of 928,670, which is an increase of 8,750, or 0.9%, from the prior year and an increase of 33,475, or 3.7%, since the year 2000. This includes a natural increase since the last census of 13,674 people (that is 58,001 births minus 44,327 deaths) and an increase due to net migration of 21,074 people into the state. Immigration from outside the United States resulted in a net increase of 2,141 people, and migration within the country produced a net increase of 18,933 people. 16,500 of state residents are foreign-born, accounting for 1.8% of the total population.
The state ranks fourth in size (~145,000 square miles) but has a relatively low population (with only six states having fewer people) and consequently a very low population density. " courtesy of enpsychlopedia Montana
As of July 1, 2006, Montana's population was 944,632.
Given the vast size of this state and even taking into consideration population growth, we still only have ONE congressman to handle all of our wants and needs. Imagine...this huge state and less than one million people to occupy all of it! Once we get over the million mile mark we gain another congressman. That may not sound like a big deal to you but we could use it.
We need to think about the ways population growth can actually help this state. For one thing, we pay higher bills due to the lack of population to share the costs. Many of us who live out in the country (and that is only 5 miles from town for me!) have old antiquated analog phone lines and Qwest won't do anything to update them. Why? because there aren't enough people to pay for it! So we have funky old phone lines, our electric bills are high..again...lack of population to share. Our unemployment is 2.8% and we have a surplus of 1 billion dollars. Yes that's billion with a B! We have a decent governor for a change and he is willing to give back to the people and help with things we need and are important to us like health insurance.
Education is high on the list of things this state needs. We are sending more people to corrections facilities than ever before and at a faster rate than most other states. This state is also the #1 state in the US for deaths due to drunk drivers. What a claim to fame that is! 93% of those in our prison system in MT today, are there in part because of drug and alcohol addiction and 50% from mental illness.
Many of the problems Montana has are not necessarily due to population growth. Population growth brings new jobs and with more people comes more business for our small business trying to make a living. Why would the governor and senators want to bring people to Montana? Because it's going to hurt us all? What we need is better planning and less blatant developing in our larger towns. Notice I'm refraining from calling them cities because even the largest of our "cities" are small by most places standards.
So, for those who say don't move here, you are being ignorant and don't realize it can be a good thing for all of us. For those of you who believe you can come here and bring your baggage and agendas with you, you won't last long as it won't be tolerated. If you have a good attitude and sense of community and want to help matters at hand instead of adding to them, welcome! It's rediculous to tell someone don't come here we don't want you. We need good, honest, hard working, intelligent, friendly people. And we need lots and lots of tourism to help keep our economy from slipping away. Tourism is what pays many of our bills and keeps food on our tables!
[quote]So, for those who say don't move here, you are being ignorant and don't realize it can be a good thing for all of us. [quote]
There is not use to resort to name calling (ie. "ignorant").
Quote:
For those of you who believe you can come here and bring your baggage and agendas with you, you won't last long as it won't be tolerated. If you have a good attitude and sense of community and want to help matters at hand instead of adding to them, welcome!
This is just statment is purely hypothetical, what is "bagage and agenda" ?
And you are contraticting yourself, telling someone they aren't wanted here because they have a different agenda or bagage than you. And what is good attitued and sense of community mean, these are cute sounding little tid bits, with notions based more in fiction than fact.
Quote:
It's rediculous to tell someone don't come here we don't want you. We need good, honest, hard working, intelligent, friendly people.
I never said "Don't come here we don't want you"...but you did in the same very paragraph. And who said we in Montana need good, honest,etc people. I don't think we need anybody, we seem to be doing quite well as we are thank you. You my dear sound nervous to make a buck in an industry (tourism) that is notoriously unpredictable, and you see growth as the answer, unfortunately you are promoting the very thing that will ruin your business in the end
And we need lots and lots of tourism to help keep our economy from slipping away. Tourism is what pays many of our bills and keeps food on our tables
I would give Montana's more credit than that, saying we need lots and lots of tourism is silly, maybe you need lots and lots of tourism, but the vast majority of Montana's are quite capable of making a living without the influx of people from other states. Tourist are nice and I enjoy there presence, but I don't need them to make a living or educate my children.
Let me say this, if you are concerned with tourism. People don't come here to see crowds. They come to experience the beauty in it's silence and solitude. Something they won't find in the Bitterroot Valley any more, or the Flathead. They don't want to drive down the traffic filled Bitterroot valley to get to a crowded river and watch raft after raft floating by them while they try to fly fish and experience Montana. And yet that is exactly what we are turning, or should I say have turned Montana into, and all in an effort to make a buck.
I guess you can give all the stats you want about population figures and how spare we are here, but the end result is still the same......the result being just what you see when you drive the route 93 corridor north to south in western Montana, traffic and congestion.
In the last short 15 years western Montana has witnessed a change one would have thought could never be possible in such a short period of time.The Bitterroot was a quite rural valley, the kind of place a tourist would enjoy, but some people felt that wasn't good enough, growth growth growth was going to solve the problem, right ? wrong.
We here in Montana, western Montana in particular are ruining on a daily basis the very reason we like to live here, more traffic or traffic fatalites, more population, more crime, more sprawl to chase off toursim, more infustructure problems, more expenisve houses, etc, etc, etc, and yet we promote more and more growth, to who's advantage is all this I ask ? Did we really need all this growth to make us happy, or to make a living ? Well I must say we have alot more jobs now, to bad working at Target and the like don't pay anything. At least one could have bought a house 15 years ago on a mild salary, now........OUT OF THE QUESTION.....growth strikes again.
Growth for the sake of growth has now become an industry in Montana, eating up valleys and country side alike, at those old clearcuts will grow back, when you urbanize a piece of land it never grows back.
We are ruining the very reason we live here, population statics or not, JUST LOOK AROUND YOU, that is all the proof you need. And for what purpose ? To make a buck ? We seemed to have done alright before.
I find the business community here, especially the 'downtown' business desparted to do anything it takes to bring in business, they open a store they probably should never have opened and then try to dream up any and every way in the world to get business in and what do they do.....promote....growth, growth, growth, that is what they perceive as their salvation....growth, more people, more growth, more money..... Promote Montana, write books, make movies, do whatever it takes just get more growth here to help their business.
We have/had a beautiful place, beautiful for what it was, the way it was. What I find most troubling is this contradiction, liking Montana for it beauty, openess, space, solitude, folk attitude and on the other hand promoting, shopping centers, lakeside condo, traffic, noise, congestion, big city attitudes, seems to fly in the face of common sense, and then we passify ourselves with notions of - we have plenty of space, we can't stop it, we need more good people, one more subdivision won't make a difference, we're creating jobs, and on and on........
One day we will look back on all this, the same way we look back on the clearcutting and malicous mining practices and say "Why did they ever do that, couldn't they see how ignorant they were"
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Maybe I should wait on buying property....but with my luck it will keep rising ;(
to move or not to move
