Reality Check (Missoula: condos, school, income)

[JoeJoeMan]

"As of 2005, Montana has an estimated population of 928,670, which is an increase of 8,750, or 0.9%, from the prior year and an increase of 33,475, or 3.7%, since the year 2000. This includes a natural increase since the last census of 13,674 people (that is 58,001 births minus 44,327 deaths) and an increase due to net migration of 21,074 people into the state. Immigration from outside the United States resulted in a net increase of 2,141 people, and migration within the country produced a net increase of 18,933 people. 16,500 of state residents are foreign-born, accounting for 1.8% of the total population.

This all sounds very nice sounding but very misleading for a number of reason......but I'll just offer up something simple. If you live in western Montana or the Bozeman area.........LOOK AROUND, WHAT DO YOU SEE. If that is what an 1.8 % increase has done, god help us if it goes to up to 4%

[mark6052]

If you dont own any land around a fishing hole and I do, either buy some land and setup roots or move out. you can come and Visit yourself. Start a new trend, dont you feel guilty to live here and not even pay land taxes? im not pickin on you jj. just alittle fun. and why doesnt it bother you that native MT folks are selling off this land?

[JoeJoeMan]

If you dont own any land around a fishing hole and I do, either buy some land and setup roots or move out. you can come and Visit yourself. Start a new trend, dont you feel guilty to live here and not even pay land taxes? im not pickin on you jj. just alittle fun. and why doesnt it bother you that native MT folks are selling off this land?

First off, that is funny......even if you are poking it at me....

Second, buy land around a fishing hole in "Montana" ? good luck. Unless you already have some other prime land to sell off or you have $$$$$$ to spare, it ain't gonna happen. If you are a young adult here growing up, you say go to college, and say just say you get a decent paying job, not an easy thing to do mind you, but say you do get a job for $40,000, you'd be on the upper end of the pay scale around here, $40,000 will quaify you for 120-150k mortgage, and what do you think are going to buy with that ? NOT MUCH, not much at all, certainly not a place on the river......nope with that income you'll be living in a trailor. Such is life here these days, graduate college, make sure you get the RIGHT degree, get lucky and get a good paying job.......your reward you get to spend most of your income to live in a trailor on the edge of town. How did it come to this ? hint, the word starts 'g' and ends with 'rowth'
And dude, I pay plenty of taxes (income tax), more than most people, and even if I rent what do you think my landlord does with my rent money, come on now think hard, your weren't thinking when you wrote your statement, but think now, harder...harder.........that's it, that's right, He takes the money form my rent and pays ......PROBERTY TAX, ya' see how that works ? I know this kind of stuff takes a little more thinking but you can do it.
OK that's bit of humor, hope you don't mind me poking fun at you now.
And PS...............was you the guy that put that "No Treaspassing" sign up on my favorite fishing hole last fall ? Those signs seem to be popping up everywhere these days...........I know, I know, you have to do it for insurance purposes incase someone falls on your property.

[mark6052]

My No tresspassing sign says "one shot one kill, no exceptions". anyway many that post no tresspass signs dont know the law that on rivers, creeks etc they cant stop you from walking on the high flood water line. Like many Americans I feel I paid my dues, service to my country, etc. So NO man any where, anytime will tell me where to come or go, regardless of what they think. becareful my friend, there are many unlike me that dont have a since of humor. and know that I hate crowded areas and the progressive thinkers that come from overcrowded states. like you I only have a small piece of this world to call my home.

[JoeJoeMan]

Sorry there guy,
I don't think I've ever told anyone where they can and can't go, on this post or in person. And I'm getting tired of re-iterating it. So no need to get the hair on your back up.
Read my last post on the "Moving from Californian" thread, perhaps you'll get the gist of my thesis there.

So NO man any where, anytime will tell me where to come or go

Sir it doesn't sound like you've spend much time in Montana bars, spraying that kind of bravado, or else you would know that there are lots of "NO man" out there who'd not only tell you but show you where to go faster than your cheap whiskey glass could hit the floor. Just a bit of advice.......I pays to be nice and respect your fellow man, even when you disagree with them.

[mark6052]

Sir I dont drink cheap whiskey. and Ive yet to be thrown out of any bar, etc. no brag, just FACT. yeah I am just that tough! No man lays hands on me nor speaks ill of me. That is my cowboy ways. Its not a challenge to you or anyone. I leave well enough alone in return. I walk this land as a free man, and live in any state I choose. I have more connection to this land than most that come here. If you are of age, drink up.

[GiftShoppeGuy]

You boys are killing me... heh heh....

I've travelled about to many other states in my lifetime, and even out of country, and there isn't anywhere that I've seen, that can even aspire to being like the real ole Montana attitude and way of thinking.

Speaking of bars?... heh heh....

Back in the day, when my life was all about riding the circut, I had my fair share of visiting the bars..... We used to huck it up about how the bull riders were like football players, and we saddle bronc riders were like baseball players. ....... used to really get those bull riders wound up tighter than an eight day clock... I'll sure tell you that........

But in the end, we settled in for mutual respect and just plain old common sense...... as we toasted the good life together with another round.

When I was a youngster, I was amazed to see the segregation in the bars of other states. If you were a cowboy, you went to a cowboy bar.... If you were a yuppie, you went to a yuppie bar, if you were a Harley Hogger, you went to a biker bar......

But here in Montana, those rules never applied, and, as far as I know, they still don't (it's been years since I've been to a bar).
Cowboys, Harley hoggers, yuppies, and more all pile into the same place..... lifting their glasses to the great wide open west and loving the lives they lead....... Respect and concern for each other as a whole reigned supreme and it was never about "who you were" or "what you did for a living"....
We could respect the fact that we lived in a world where responsibility took center stage each and every day of our lives. And the bars were the common ground many met on, and on many occasions.

Cold wintery 10 below zero weather in Charlo for instance, and the only place open was the local pub..... Sure, you're travelling through, and nevermind that you've got kids, a dog or a gun..... bring 'em all in and get warmed up, grab a bite to eat....... take the chill off, and warm up.

So many things have changed over the years.... Our state government markets to the extreme left anymore these days, thinking that "money" will cure our presumed ills..... when really, all Montana has ever needed, are folks that can "think for themselves", good hard working honest folk, that can take the bull by the horns and do what's right without ever having to be told.
Folks that aren't afraid of the dark, folks that can stand up and be responsible in their own comunities. Folks that know how to respect others.

Being responsible is really nothing new at all..... it's a tried and true concept that somehow seems to get left out of peoples lives everytime something new comes along.

There isn't anything wrong with "new ideas".... New ideas are great, "if they work" and are "practical".......
But all I'm seeing coming out of the great state of California anymore these days, are ideas that "don't work"... Failed concepts, and laws meant to "pass the buck"........

People are pouring out of places like California, Oregon and Washington, among many other places, as a direct result of a good many "failed" ideas..... I see them wanting to get away from the non-sense of it all..... and where else in this country could there ever be that could even come close to promising a normal life??... Well, Montana is a place I can think of right off the bat, along with the Dakota's, portions of Idaho, areas in Utah, parts and pieces of Colorado.... and so forth.

California has been the butt of nearly every one of life's jokes for years.
Back in the 70's, Oregon's governor Tom McCall got into trouble when he put a sign up in Klammath Falls that read, and I quote... "Californians, please visit Oregon frequently, but please do not move here"..... The ICC had a real problem with that one. And, California sued to have it removed......

I'm all for California losing it's middle class.. they don't deserve hard working honest folk.
California doesn't care about it's people..... of this I'm firmly convinced.
This business of debasing California is nothing new at all.... it's been going on for years.....

There isn't anything at all wrong with wanting to have a normal life.... and from what I've seen of California, life there is anything but normal....

[Absaroka]

You want a reallity check, drive around Bozeman. Bozeman should change its name to New Bozeman. Sprawl, traffic, and smog is the reality check. Most of you people don't even know what your destroying. You have no idea what New Bozeman used to be like.

[JoeJoeMan]

Sir I dont drink cheap whiskey. and Ive yet to be thrown out of any bar, etc. no brag, just FACT. yeah I am just that tough! No man lays hands on me nor speaks ill of me. That is my cowboy ways. Its not a challenge to you or anyone. I leave well enough alone in return. I walk this land as a free man, and live in any state I choose. I have more connection to this land than most that come here. If you are of age, drink

up.

How did I know you would say that ! Every cowboy is the toughest cowboy who ever walked the earth.

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Originally Posted by Absaroka

You want a reallity check, drive around Bozeman. Bozeman should change its name to New Bozeman. Sprawl, traffic, and smog is the reality check. Most of you people don't even know what your destroying. You have no idea what New Bozeman used to be like.

I can say the exact same thing about Missoula and the Bitterroot.