Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
OP, have you considered other areas outside of Montana, and what is it that specifically attracted you to Bozeman and Missoula?
I actually am considering a few different areas. I've already excluded some too. What pulls me to these cities is that they're not too tiny, but they're also not too big. I like the fact that you're on the edge of all the outdoor activities.
One of the biggest pulls is the weather. I'm really drawn to the drier climate. For a short time I lived in Bend, OR., and the weather was fabulous. (Bend is no longer an option because it's too close to certain family) I felt so much better. I don't know what it is about western Oregon and Washington, but the dampness just does not make me feel well. And the gloominess is becoming more and more unbearable every year.
I also like the fact that it's off the beaten track. Here everything is right off the I5 freeway and that's it. Too, the people in Portland are just...weird. I know they really pride themselves on being weird, but come on people. Not taking showers does not show that you're independent. Smoking pot does not make you smarter and it doesn't make you more "earth friendly."
From what people have told me, Montana is a little more conservative in nature. I'm not involved in politics by any means, but I'm just talking about people's way of life and their ideas.
I'm also considering Albuquerque, NM. I thought about Tucson, AZ for a while as well, but I'm not sure I would do well in that kind of heat. I actually do like to see some snow. Someone recommended Denver as well, but it sounds too big for me and like I would just be moving to a Portland in a different area. I hope this all makes sense.
I actually am considering a few different areas. I've already excluded some too. What pulls me to these cities is that they're not too tiny, but they're also not too big. I like the fact that you're on the edge of all the outdoor activities.
One of the biggest pulls is the weather. I'm really drawn to the drier climate. For a short time I lived in Bend, OR., and the weather was fabulous. (Bend is no longer an option because it's too close to certain family) I felt so much better. I don't know what it is about western Oregon and Washington, but the dampness just does not make me feel well. And the gloominess is becoming more and more unbearable every year.
I also like the fact that it's off the beaten track. Here everything is right off the I5 freeway and that's it. Too, the people in Portland are just...weird. I know they really pride themselves on being weird, but come on people. Not taking showers does not show that you're independent. Smoking pot does not make you smarter and it doesn't make you more "earth friendly."
From what people have told me, Montana is a little more conservative in nature. I'm not involved in politics by any means, but I'm just talking about people's way of life and their ideas.
I'm also considering Albuquerque, NM. I thought about Tucson, AZ for a while as well, but I'm not sure I would do well in that kind of heat. I actually do like to see some snow. Someone recommended Denver as well, but it sounds too big for me and like I would just be moving to a Portland in a different area. I hope this all makes sense.
Have you considered Casper, Gillette, or Cheyenne, WY? They are around the same size as Bozeman and Missoula. They are not as scenic but have more conservative values as well. The main drawback to Casper is the wind. I think Cheyenne has that as well, but I haven't lived there. I have driven through Gillette countless times but haven't lived there either.
I've lived around Portland, OR and Seattle, WA my whole life, and I'm ready for something different. I am so sick of this rain/gray. I'll drop dead before I see another raindrop in this mold zone. The I5 corridor is getting old and so is the traffic. And all these people crammed into one area is miserable. So, my first concern is:
1: Weather. Will I see a break from the gray/rain if I locate to Bozeman or Missoula? I realize that you get a ton of snow, which would take some getting used to, but do you actually get to see the light of day once in a while? I do love the snow but know that visiting it and living in it all the time are very different things. I always chuckle when people considering a move to Portland say, "I absolutely love the rain! What's the wettest place!" I don't have a problem with cold temperatures--I didn't even mind my visit to Minnesota when it was -40 outside. Between the two cities, which gets more snow? Which gets more sun?
2: Housing. Can you find a studio or 1 bedroom apartment or small house/guest house for $600 to $700? How much do utilities typically cost in the winter months, or are they usually included in the rent?
3: Cost of living. How much does it cost for a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk? I hear a lot of the food is locally grown. Is it very expensive?
4: Broadband high-speed internet access (not satellite). I operate a business out of my home, so this is vital. I read on another thread, though, that there is a company that services both cities. Have you found it reliable and fast? Have you experienced any outages?
5: Taxes. I know you don't have sales tax, but someone told me the income tax is 10%. Yikes! Is this flat for everyone, or does it depend on your income? Are self-employment taxes brutal?
6: Driving. I have an old front-wheel drive Jetta. Will that suffice with snow tires? Or do I need AWD/ 4-wheel drive?
7: People. Are people friendly and laid back? Are they more reserved generally? Are Bozeman and Missoula's personalities (in people) basically the same?
8: Isolation. How do people deal with the isolation? Do you love the area so much that it doesn't bother you? Do you take frequent trips? Or can you keep so busy with the outdoors you don't even notice?
.
1. You won't escape clouds, rain or snow in Missoula. It isn't called the "Garden City' because of a lack of moisture. It catches the precipitation as the clouds rise while going over the Rockies. Bozeman and Billings are east of the Rockies, hence drier and better weather.
2. Not a chance, unless you really compromise. on size and/or qualty.
3. Average, if you don't include housing cost.
4. Don't know, but this isn't quite the backwater you seem to think it is.
5. It's a graduated rate, like fed tax. 11% used to be the top rate. It starts at 1%. I'm not sure, but I thnk the top rate is lower these days.
6. Don't worry unless you go off gedium travel roadways. I drive a Honda Accord and do just fine on all highways and secondary roads.
7. You can find whatever you're looking for. Generalizations are misleading. Missoula is not closed minded. It is home of the Univ of Montana, and, by Montana standarrds, quite liberal. The only people I've known who think Missoula is closed minded are right-leaning and generally the closed minded ones. (I'm not saying all right leaning people are closed minded.)
Have you considered Casper, Gillette, or Cheyenne, WY? They are around the same size as Bozeman and Missoula. They are not as scenic but have more conservative values as well. The main drawback to Casper is the wind. I think Cheyenne has that as well, but I haven't lived there. I have driven through Gillette countless times but haven't lived there either.
I know absolutely nothing about Wyoming, so I haven't as of yet considered it. Do you know which cities, if any, have cable broadband internet? Wireless or satellite is no good for what I do.
Which city(s) is more mountainous? I looked up a couple pictures of Cheyenne and the city looked really nice. Overall do the cities get a good amount of sunshine? Is it a pretty dry climate?
2. Not a chance, unless you really compromise. on size and/or qualty.
What do you mean when you say compromise? I'm used to not living in luxury. I'm talking small apartments that don't have many amenities. Of course, I don't want a dump either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKY1949
4. Don't know, but this isn't quite the backwater you seem to think it is.
8. This isn't Timbuktu.
Really? You're not in Timbuktu? Compared to the I5 corridor, you are. Around here you're right in the city and everything is accessible. And the next big city is only a couple hours away. I think it's fair to say that you're fairly isolated in Montana.
And the fact that nobody knows which Broadband services are available seems to legitimize my concern about its availability.
Thanks for clarifying the tax issue. I was under the impression that it was 10% flat for everybody, but it sounds like that's not the case.
I know absolutely nothing about Wyoming, so I haven't as of yet considered it. Do you know which cities, if any, have cable broadband internet? Wireless or satellite is no good for what I do.
Which city(s) is more mountainous? I looked up a couple pictures of Cheyenne and the city looked really nice. Overall do the cities get a good amount of sunshine? Is it a pretty dry climate?
Cheyenne is not in the mountains, but it is within 40 minutes or so. You would be better off in Sheridan, Buffalo, or Cody.
I would suggest you post in the Wyoming Forum or read some of the posts there. I live close to Sheridan and I can tell you that it does have Cable Broadband, DSL or even T'lines available. Sheridan is about 15 miles from the base of the Big Horn Mountains. We enjoy a lot of beautiful sunshine and very little wind. Sheridan is about 18,000 people, so it has more of a small town atmosphere but has great shopping.
I know absolutely nothing about Wyoming, so I haven't as of yet considered it. Do you know which cities, if any, have cable broadband internet? Wireless or satellite is no good for what I do.
Which city(s) is more mountainous? I looked up a couple pictures of Cheyenne and the city looked really nice. Overall do the cities get a good amount of sunshine? Is it a pretty dry climate?
I'm not too familiar which cities have broadband access. Of the cities I mentioned, Casper is the only one near mountains although Casper Mountain is not nearly as big as the mountains around Bozeman or Missoula. As Elkhunter said, Cheyenne isn't too far (by Wyoming standards) from mountains. Gillette is out on the plains. As Elkhunter said, Sheridan is also a nice idea as is Buffalo. The towns here that are near the mountains are smaller in this state.
Hello Sobefobik, and welcome to MT! I love the Pacific NW, and we need more folks who know how to drive in traffic out here! Anyway, as a native Northcentral/Western MT guy who's pretty familiar with your area as well, let me attempt to add some more perspective:
1. Weather. First off, if you could handle that trip to Minnesota in the winter, very little in MT will bother you in terms of snow/cold! I think Bozeman may receive a bit more snow than Missoula, but they're both fairly similar in that regard compared to the even more frigid parts of the state.
In terms of rain, Missoula does get more precipitation and gray sky days, hands down. It may be overcast every other day for a few months during the winter, but that city certainly doesn't receive months on end of unbroken overcast and rain like the Pacific NW. I met many, many Oregonians and Washingtonians when I lived in Missoula, and practically everyone commented on how sunny it was compared to back home. I don't think it would bug you at all. But if you're looking for the objectively sunniest city, Bozeman it is.
2. You should be able to find a 1 bedroom apartment or studio in both cities for that price range. A house for $600-$700 would be highly unlikely. Housing availability is pretty tight in either city since they're relatively small college towns. You'll want to do more research, but I believe Bozeman is more expensive in housing than Missoula. Utilities will be similar in both places and less than you probably paid along the coast.
3. Food in MT is relatively expensive, for whatever reason. I know it's more expensive than where I currently live in CO, and your area may be cheaper as well. That being said, you'll make up for those prices in the lower cost of living and other amenities overall.
There are a few organic, Whole Foods-style grocery stores with locally grown products in both cities, but the majority of the food in big supermarkets is shipped from somewhere else. Albertsons stores dominate much of MT, so you'll be buying basically the same products you purchased back home if you shop at the chains.
4. Both cities have fine broadband internet. I believe the company you're thinking of is Qwest, but there are several other options as well. Neither area is underserved technology wise by any means, as they are two of the primary cultural/population hubs in the state.
5. Unfortunately, I can't tell you a ton about taxes, as I was a young guy/broke college student making small amounts of dough during most of my time residing in MT. You will want to do more research. I do expect MT taxes are much lower than WA, and possibly OR.
6. 4 wheel drive is always a good idea, but it depends on your lifestyle. If you expect to travel often during the winter or drive up high mountains for ski trips, having 4 wheel drive is certainly more desirable. However, you will be fine driving around either city in your Jetta. Just don't forget about those icy, icy streets!
7. Ooh boy, the personalities question. Both Missoula and Bozeman seem to simultaneously receive the most praise and the most flak from other Montanans in this category. I'll give you the "Montana Stereotype" view first: Missoula is a hippie college student town, and Bozeman is a yuppie, So Cal transplant college student town. That's the heavily ingrained stereotype you will hear from many Montanans outside of those two cities (With jokes like "The People's Republic of Missoula, Boze-Angeles, etc.)
Now on to REALITY: Both cities are laid back, friendly and diverse by Montanan standards. Missoula is definitely more similar to the Pacific Northwest, and well populated by transplants from that area. Missoulians drive to Spokane/Seattle to see concerts, sports games, ex-girlfriends, etc. Bozeman seems to have more people from states to the East, CA, and Wyoming. Missoula is the liberal arts college town (U of Montana), while Bozeman has the Agricultural/Science based college (Montana State). Therefore, the population and attitudes of the cities reflect those professions to some extent, perhaps similar to a Eugene vs. Corvalis relationship. Missoulians are probably slightly more reserved but also laid back, while Bozeman folks may be more open but less agreeable in small ways.
If you're at all concerned with politics, both areas tend to be seas of Blue in a Red state when you look at voting demographics. Missoula is definitely more liberal than Bozeman culturally, if that matters to you. Missoula is more similar to PDX or Seattle in terms of environmentalist influence, acceptance of LGBT people, opinions on Marijuana use, etc. than Bozeman, but not by a huge amount. Either area has decent nightlife, coffee shops, and other amenities, in large part due to the colleges.
8.I think you will find many Montanans are confused by the question of "How to deal with the isolation," as perceptions of that are relative to where one grew up. Neither city feels isolated to me in comparison the smaller cities in the state, cities in Wyoming, or even smaller cities in OR and WA. Some Montanans complain about the "traffic" in Missoula, Bozeman and Billings to the east. How you feel about the atmosphere will be unique to you, but just remember that you're not moving to rural Alaska or anything.
The pace of life, traffic, and amount of people you see on the street will be different than the Pacific NW. Both cities are growing in population and will continue to do so due to their colleges and locations within the state. Both areas will seem small to you in comparison to back home, but a large portion of the state's population lives within western MT (And yes, that pop is only around 1 million).
Montanans are generally outdoorsy, but not everyone escapes the cities for nature as a refuge. Some people could care less and spend their time playing World of Warcraft indoors or whatever other activity, just like any city in the country.
In terms of driving distance, Missoula may have the slight edge over Bozeman in terms of proximity to larger cities. Missoula is a 3 hour drive to Spokane, 7-ish hour drive to Seattle, and a 9 hour drive to Portland. Bozeman is further east from all of those cities, but is also closer to the state's largest city, Billings, which has 100,000 people. Bozeman is also slightly closer to Salt Lake City and Denver, which are still a LONG way off.
Both cities are relatively close to awesome nature opportunities: Bozeman is just north of Yellowstone National Park and also has Big Sky, the arguably best ski resort in the state. Missoula is less than 3 hours away from Glacier National Park and very close to hiking, camping and whitewater rafting to one's heart's content. You can't go wrong with either city if you're a nature lover!
Anyway, that's my two cents. You picked two of the best cities in the state, so congratulations either way!!
My apologies if that reply was insanely long, hah hah. I didn't realize it looked like a novel until after posting. Anyway, I hope that helps!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Anyway, as a native Northcentral/Western MT guy who's pretty familiar with your area as well, let me attempt to add some more perspective:
