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Because it's become the state to hate. No matter what excuse people give for not liking Californians IMO it boils down to a simple thing of blaming others for what is going on in this state to make yourself feel better instead of looking to the people in control who have done nothing and the people that put them there allowing it. You'd think everyone that's ever moved here is from CA instead of from all across the nation.
Ironicly it's not just Montana...
Texas, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho and even Utah, if you can believe it, all complain about the same things when it comes to California.
California has worked long and hard to establish it's poor reputation over the past 60 some odd, or more, years, and everyone in the west knows it.... So everyone in the west gives credit where credit is due.
Nope, we here in Montana don't hold exclusive rights to any kind of California bashing... We share the sentiment with all of our other mountain state neighbors equally.
If California was all they seem to think they are, then folks from there wouldn't be half killing themselves to get the flock out. It's a pretty bad place when even it's own citizens are screaming to leave, and can't get out of there fast enough.
Texas, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho and even Utah, if you can believe it, all complain about the same things when it comes to California.
California has worked long and hard to establish it's poor reputation over the past 60 some odd, or more, years, and everyone in the west knows it.... So everyone in the west gives credit where credit is due.
Nope, we here in Montana don't hold exclusive rights to any kind of California bashing... We share the sentiment with all of our other mountain state neighbors equally.
If California was all they seem to think they are, then folks from there wouldn't be half killing themselves to get the flock out. It's a pretty bad place when even it's own citizens are screaming to leave, and can't get out of there fast enough.
First, to paint everyone from California with the same brush is just plain wrong! Quite a few and I do mean Quite a few places there have plenty of sane,normal people in them, not much different in thinking than small towns here believe it or not (like places north of Petaluma and east of Sacramento) but they lost controll years ago. Labeling them like is done here is like me saying everyone in Montana are a bunch of uneducated stump jumping white supremasists or anti-government militia just because some have lived here.
Well, California is actually beautiful, as wonderful as here but in different ways it's just gotten out of control in some places. What's happened there is EXACTLY what will happen here if y'all allow the people in government to do as THEY wish not what you wish. As soon as the nuts get in charge then more will follow and soon the sane are out numbered or have lost control. I think you need to quit worrying about who's bringing what money to live here and worry more about what your boys in the county offices and state offices are allowing to be done to your state. The bottom line is it doesn't matter who moves here even if they can buy and sell most of us because no one can do anything but live here UNLESS YOU LET THEM.
How do you think the logging business has been pretty much hammered out of existence? Out of state interests got a toe hold here and people (for the most part) let it happen.
First, to paint everyone from California with the same brush is just plain wrong! Quite a few and I do mean Quite a few places there have plenty of sane,normal people in them, not much different in thinking than small towns here believe it or not (like places north of Petaluma and east of Sacramento) but they lost controll years ago. Labeling them like is done here is like me saying everyone in Montana are a bunch of uneducated stump jumping white supremasists or anti-government militia just because some have lived here.
Well, California is actually beautiful, as wonderful as here but in different ways it's just gotten out of control in some places. What's happened there is EXACTLY what will happen here if y'all allow the people in government to do as THEY wish not what you wish. As soon as the nuts get in charge then more will follow and soon the sane are out numbered or have lost control. I think you need to quit worrying about who's bringing what money to live here and worry more about what your boys in the county offices and state offices are allowing to be done to your state. The bottom line is it doesn't matter who moves here even if they can buy and sell most of us because no one can do anything but live here UNLESS YOU LET THEM.
How do you think the logging business has been pretty much hammered out of existence? Out of state interests got a toe hold here and people (for the most part) let it happen.
Of course, your point is well taken, as always.
Long about the time the toe-hold formed was about the time of the big push from California came along..(mid 80's)
Folks from California, in the early days brought a lot of things with them, including a certain apathy with regard to how we've managed to live our lives here over the years. They were seemingly so way above us inept little Montanans in those days.
It all went to hell in a handbasket after that.
If memory serves me correctly though, it wasn't so much local or state government that shut the forests down, but rather this all happened at the federal level.
All of the voters in Montana couldn't have kept it from happening, this was and still is, a national issue.
Voters in California were just as responsible to vote "correctly" as we were required to do in those days...
I agree, on the otherhand, that there are folks from all over the country that are pretty cool, even some from California... Not all have that over-the-edge mentality.
Some of my closest friends came out of California back in the 70's
The politics of California is what offers up the "blanket statements", not us. California has effectively isolated themselves from the rest of us through their legislative processes, leaving all of the rest of us to just shaking our heads for the waste of it all.
As far as our collective participation in our legislative processes? All you have to do is make note of the fact that every screwy law that's gone up before our state house has been run through and tossed out to the dogs on the back porch... we don't have the time for insidious rules and regs... we would prefer that these remain in California, where they belong.
I feel bad for folks coming out of California really, as the stigma that the state has put on them, wingnut or not, is probably pretty hard to live down in whatever state they've chosen to move to.
It's never been about the money for me. I've got plenty of it of my own, and besides, the housing situation isn't so much the transplants fault as it is the lending industry's fault... and this again too, is a national issue.
Welcome home 2bar !!!
Don't listen to naysayers just forge ahead with your life and raise some cows !
Give a few of those extra vegetables to the neighbors !
I've been reading a lot of blogs about people in MT not accepting folks from CA because they think we all have money and just want to turn MT into another CA. Not true. In my case, my fiance is from MT (5th generation cowboy, to be exact), with a couple hundred acre ranch near Ronan. He moved to LA for his special effect/stunt/acting career, but is ready to make the move back permanently - with me. The ranch is paid off, and we just want to spend the last years of our lives there living more simply and quietly, raising our horses, pushing cows and puttering in the garden. I consider myself a pretty easy-going person, who isn't afraid of hard work, winter or making new friends and acquaintences. I'm just hopeful there are some people up there who will have more welcoming words about starting a new life there.
I've witnessed the attitude myself from some of my fellow natives....
It mostly resides in western Montana though.
Reason why I mention this, is about 6 years after my first wife died, I ran out and got another.
My first wife was native to the state, just like I am, but my second wife was born and raised in Texas...
I had due concern over whether or not folks would accept her as their own.
--
One day, over in Whitefish we sat down to a BBQ with some of my dear friends and the subject of transplants came up. It comes up a lot over there these days, locals there really do resent the influx by the way...
And my new wife, spoke up questioning her acceptance into Montana, because she knew she wasn't from here.
My friend, very politely put her hand on my wife's hand and said in a very calm voice..."You're just fine, you married him (me) so that makes it alright..."
My wife breathed a sigh of relief over that one, because she did indeed have concerns with regard to her acceptance here in Montana. Here she considered herself an outsider until that day over in Whitefish... to her (my wife) being accepted by several other natives other than just her husband
was like a dream come true for her.
That was 9 years ago.
Don't worry, you've married a wild eyed Montana Cowboy.... you'll be just fine.
Then there's the changing of things. It took me awhile and I still can't figure out exactly what kind of change everyone is so opposed to.
Do the words Reserver Street ring a bell.
You know people in montana run the spectrum on how they view outsiders.....in some small towns like the ones in western montana, ( I won't mention any names) you have to realize most of those 'native' types that live there, are really implants, even if it was 20,30,40 years ago. I find those types of people much differnt than say the small town folk from central montana, who are for the most part generationed in montana.....
Generally speaking small western montana towns people I've come in contact with and or know, have attitudes, they've came here in large part to get away from people, I say "get away for people" so they tend to act that way towards outsiders and even their own towns people,....Now small town central montana folks are generationed in and are just living their lives and have less of an attitude towards outsides, in fact they tend to like outsiders, that being said however I would imagine they would be suspicious at new comers because they'd be wonder - "why the hell did they move here to the middle of nowhere" - whereas western montana small town folks are use to seeing people move in, because everyone moves into western montana, afterall that's were the mountains are, but like I said these are the "I moved here to get away from people" types - so they are clickish and have attitudes.....sorry that just the way I've seen it happen and from personal experience...I could name names and cite examples but of course I won't get into it that far.
Small town western montana people can be really weird (unibomber types) like I said alot of them came here back in the 60s 70s to get away from people, I had to deal with these types and it really struck me how cold and stand offish they can be.
You know just because it's "montana' doesn't mean that for some magical reason people are any better or worse than anywhere else in the world. I had a friend from West Virginia he told me that people there could be pretty strange - and reason being was that years ago West Virginia was a place because of it's isolation that people would runaway to to get away from society and the attitude and social behavior carries over to this day....that's what he told me and it makes sense, I see that to some greater or less extent here in Montana. People don't move here because they want to live where there are lots of people or be socialites - they move here to get away from people, that's a very important distinction to be made when considering the type of people that live here.
You know JoeJoe, you just might have something there, BTW Reserve st is kind of getting out of hand isn't it? It still kind of floors me that the "strip" runs from hwy 90 for miles, crosses the river and keeps going.
Anyway, having not spent a whole lot of time in places or with the people outside of western Montana explains why I don't quite get what's going on. I've spent a whole lot of time with the people in this valley and for the most part they all stick to themselves and I have heard over and over "the reason we moved here was to get away from people" and I think, then why did you move HERE of all places? It would seem to me that thinking like that would fracture a community and runs contrary to the sense of community and family that I keep hearing exists here (but have yet to see).
I have neighbors I have talked to ONCE, and they were so anti-social that further talk was discouraged. This is the kind of thing we run into constantly around here and that's what we don't get. I will talk to anyone, as you can see here, I may disagree but that doesn't mean I don't like you or respect your ideas and I really enjoy debating issues since that is how understanding is born. I guess people (here) expect you to be a mind reader and for you to know what bugs them.
I'll give you a good example, we live in a subdivision of 20 lots that are 2 acres each and hidden in the middle of woods. We have covenants that were put in place by the developer and general in nature like no junk cars,if you have trailers you have to screen them from view, when you build garages they cannot face the street and don't let your animals run loose and annoy your neighbors oh, and no high intensity street lights. Just simple things right? Well, people start building here and immediately ignore most of the covenants. When they are reminded of the rules THEY chose to buy into they get ticked and "poof" won't talk to anyone anymore (not like they talked much to begin with) and have the attitude that "this is our land and we'll do what we please with it". Now these are locals from this area, the "transplants" pretty much just follow the covenants without complaint and agree they bought into them.
We try to consider who we live around, like not choking out the neighbors by burning huge slash piles on inversion days and if the smoke starts gassing out the area toning it down so they don't have to suffer for what we do. I've always thought that's what good neighbors do, you know, be concerned about bothering others, watch out for each other, if you see an ambulance stop at your neighbors house ask if everything is ok... To see the atitudes here I guess we have been mistaken. Is this just a western montana thing?
Boy Jim I would LOVE to have you for a neighbor!! Thats the problem we have where we live, no consideration for the neighbors around you. Just do as you please and the heck with everyone else. Party till 4 in the morning with radio blaring, target practive eight hours a day,drive up an down the road on thier four whereler so fast your chokin on dust to even sit on your patio to eat a burger. I dont get it.Just because we are county we are forced to live with it.I do believe your its your land and you should be able to do what you want i guess, but still....Where are the manners and polite neighbors ? Are they a thing of the past. Maybe were getting to old hahahha.
We always try to be considerate, like dont start the lawn mower at least till 9 beacause the next guy might be sleeping in,. Or drive slow by their house so they dont have to eat our dust, etc. But we absolutly do not get that respect in return.Not at all.Most of our neighbors dont even wave! Except the "outsiders" as everyone wants to call them, that moved in.They are friendly as all get out. Ok rant over
Hello, My brother and his family moved (from Los Angeles) to Montana outside of Helena.(5 years ago) They bought a big spread, got horses and tried to live the montana dream. But the thing I wonder about is that, the local people seem so distant and cold when my brother tries to intraduce himself and make friends. He says that the nicest people are his new neighbors that came from a different state. Does this happen to outsiders? Are locals so unhappy to have new comers?
My experience of MT has been wonderful. I lived somewhere else for decades and never even knew my next door neighbor's names. People in MT have been exceptionally warm and helpful. I even had a "chainsaw fairy" come one time while I was out and cut up and stack a huge tree limb that had fallen in my yard. I never did find out who it was. I've had people sneak in to fill my propane tank anonymously. People are very considerate of my privacy, they don't come to the door much. But, the general rule is, if you're outside in your yard, you're fair game for a chat! I actually built a fence just the height of my elbow so I could have something to lean on for those nice long chats with friends. Montanans smile at me, and we all wave ateach other when driving. Your mileage may vary, but that's been my experience.
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