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Old 12-12-2007, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Outside of Sidney
5 posts, read 7,852 times
Reputation: 13

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I was not aware of the ban either, I got Emma in Billings from a breeder who advertised in the paper and put some pups in a pet shop there. That was 16 months ago. I don't see how he could have done that with a ban in Billings, unless this ban is very recent. Hey what about pillows, you know how many pillows have been used to commit homicides... We seriously need to ban pillows
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:48 PM
 
Location: huh?
3,099 posts, read 2,016,421 times
Reputation: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegjet View Post
I was not aware of the ban either, I got Emma in Billings from a breeder who advertised in the paper and put some pups in a pet shop there. That was 16 months ago. I don't see how he could have done that with a ban in Billings, unless this ban is very recent. Hey what about pillows, you know how many pillows have been used to commit homicides... We seriously need to ban pillows
pillows dont have a mind of their own or teeth.
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Old 12-12-2007, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,538 posts, read 12,545,704 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by LPerkins33 View Post
there is a whole boat load of misinformation here. There's no such thing as bad dogs, only bad owners.
Speaking as a professional dog trainer/breeder with almost 40 years experience, sorry, but there ARE bad dogs, just like there are bad people, and in about the same proportion of the population. This is why we breed FOR good temperament, and DON'T breed from aggressive individuals -- because temperament and aggression are inherited, not made. It's actually very difficult (and often, impossible) to MAKE a dog become aggressive if it wasn't born with the genetic makeup for it. (Pack-culling behaviour, which I think I mentioned elsewhere, is NOT aggression, even tho it probably accounts for most fatal dog "attacks".)

Dangerous dogs should be put down, not made excuses for. But the flipside is that ignorant owners and overblown public fears do NOT make a given dog or breed "bad". Unfortunately the current spate of cookie training and never disciplining the dog is leading to more and more spoiled brats, which proceed to give a bad name to dogs that would be perfectly nice if well-trained and disciplined as needed. Works just like it does with teenagers, for that matter.

The animal rights nuts WANT dogs to be untrained, spoiled (thus difficult to handle) and widely-feared as aggressive -- because it makes banning breeds (and eventually, all dogs) that much easier, if you scare the public into going along with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LPerkins33 View Post
Oh and more people are attacked by labs in this country than pit bulls. Thats not just because there are more labs either.
Pits have never been #1 on the bite list. That position is usually held by Chows or small hairy mutts. The Post Office probably has the best stats on this. However, in most cases they're just guessing about the breed, or mix.


.

Last edited by Reziac; 12-12-2007 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:51 PM
GLS
 
1,985 posts, read 4,831,346 times
Reputation: 2408
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegjet View Post
I was not aware of the ban either, I got Emma in Billings from a breeder who advertised in the paper and put some pups in a pet shop there. That was 16 months ago. I don't see how he could have done that with a ban in Billings, unless this ban is very recent. Hey what about pillows, you know how many pillows have been used to commit homicides... We seriously need to ban pillows
Michael Vicks got 23 months for sanctioning pillow fights??
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Old 12-22-2007, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Outside of Sidney
5 posts, read 7,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolepsy View Post
pillows dont have a mind of their own or teeth.
Well, neither do guns, but they kill lots of people.

"Dangerous dogs should be put down, not made excuses for. But the flipside is that ignorant owners and overblown public fears do NOT make a given dog or breed "bad". Unfortunately the current spate of cookie training and never disciplining the dog is leading to more and more spoiled brats, which proceed to give a bad name to dogs that would be perfectly nice if well-trained and disciplined as needed. Works just like it does with teenagers, for that matter"

Thanks again Reziac, you are right. I consider Dr. Spock the cookie trainer of our teens. If a pit is bad, it needs to be put down, ALL dogs have teeth! All are capable of inflicting damage. People are in charge of their dogs, I know where mine are every minute of every day. Irresponsible PEOPLE allow the dog to become aggressive or run loose to cause chaos. If the dog rules you, you don't need a dog. I have seen small dogs that completely rule a house, bite the owner for trying to shoo it off the couch, bite the kid cause he reaches in his food bowl etc. How can one breed be banned and not the others? Michael Vick got what he had coming, and not from the use of pillows. You know why they use pitbulls? Because they won't turn on the owner when breaking up a fight, coupled with the fact that they have a great abililty, they are strong! They make great dogs for helping the handicapped (ie. pulling wheel chairs for instance) There is so much good that can be accomplished, I saw a pit support dog pick the back of an earring up and hand it to it's owner. Why not take their strength and ability to help people and make the punishment for misusing them a lot more hefty?
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 36,298,679 times
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Dogs are a commitment to the owner. If a dog is bad, it's because the owner was not responsible enough to train the dog, or to keep the dog at bay. The dog is not the problem, it's the owner.
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Old 12-22-2007, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Outside of Sidney
5 posts, read 7,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Dogs are a commitment to the owner. If a dog is bad, it's because the owner was not responsible enough to train the dog, or to keep the dog at bay. The dog is not the problem, it's the owner.
And THAT is the God honest truth
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,538 posts, read 12,545,704 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Dogs are a commitment to the owner. If a dog is bad, it's because the owner was not responsible enough to train the dog, or to keep the dog at bay. The dog is not the problem, it's the owner.
While this is true most of the time (and more so in our current feelgood society), it is NOT true 100% of the time. As I say above, and speaking as a professional dog trainer and breeder with hands-on experience of several thousand dogs -- aggressive, untrainable, spooky, untrustworthy, and just plain weird dogs DO exist, and no amount of training can fix their behaviour. Some are born that way and are never right from day one, and some go wrong later (juvenile psychosis, akin to paranoid schizophrenia in humans, isn't uncommon in dogs). And if you think all dogs can be made into good pets (and I mean safe in an average family situation, not where you have to do special management like keep the dog away from kids), either you just haven't had enough experience training enough different dogs, or you're living in a fantasy bubble.

And bad dogs can pop up even from the most meticulous breeding program, and even where there is strong selection for the best possible temperament. But since temperament is entirely inherited (you only have about 5% to work with), your odds are a lot better when dealing with dogs that come from multiple generations of good sound temperaments.

Every time I see someone who claims that "it's *always* an owner problem", it's also someone who thinks it's okay (or even desirable) for pets to run the household however they like, or that dogs that need special management are merely "misunderstood" or "unsocialized" etc. Such people are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Outside of Sidney
5 posts, read 7,852 times
Reputation: 13
LOL! Ok Reziac, you got me, your right. After 15 years as a vet tech, I know your right. I have seen some pretty nutso dogs that just weren't right. In fact, I sport a scar on my lip from a schizo Siberian Husky (24 stitches) that we treated in the clinic. So I really have to agree that there are bad dogs, purebreds make up the majority wouldn't you agree? Which also comes back to PEOPLE being irresponsible as breeders. Can't recall ever seeing a schizo mutt
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:00 AM
 
716 posts, read 951,890 times
Reputation: 480
For some reason pit bulls seem to almost attract stupid owners. I mean, the people who use dogs for fighting certainly don't pick poodles, they go for pit bulls. Or people get them because they think it will be cool to own a pit bull but then don't bother to take care of them. We knew people in our old neighborhood who would "walk" their pit bulls by opening the front door and letting them run loose. They were not bad dogs but we quit taking walks because they nipped at our dog (who was leashed) and it just ruined it for us. We also had a pit bull hop our 5 foot fence to get into our yard because he was interested in our lab, who was fixed so that attempt was unsuccessful. I don't think that pit bulls are more aggressive than other dogs, its just when they are aggressive they can do more damage. I mean, if I am going to be attacked by a dog I will take a yorkie over a pit bull any day. To me, it seems that pit bulls are targeted not only by the general public, but also to a degree by the people who own them. There seems to be a high level of abuse toward them by their owners. I think restrictions should not only help protect people but should protect the dogs as well. Owners should be screened to make sure they will be responsible and care for their pets.
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