Moving, Buying Seasonal Access Land to live on full time?? (Bozeman: rent, to live in)
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Location: A Very Naughtytown In Northwestern Montanifornia U.S.A.
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Originally Posted by 6.7traveler
How reasonable are land prices in the yaak area?
That depends on so many factors such as the size of the parcel and how usable the land is as well as how far up and off the grid the property is. Do a web search for property in that area and you'll get a feel for the pricing. Way up there you are pretty far from shopping and all and that area as well as up the North Fork Flathead, there are a lot of grizzly bears and timber-wolves so livestock and pets must be well guarded.
I would respond with some good ideas about land, but your original post is so offensive that I doubt you'd care for any advice from a liberal like me, even though I've lived in Montana for decades. I will say, though, that your narrow-minded and hateful attitude would make you a perfect fit with all the other NIMBYs and other hatemongers in the Hamilton-Darby area.
Lol sorry if my first post came off offensive. I was being a little bit sarcastic. I have nothing against liberals in general, just the ones who try and impose their views and ideas on other people like me ( the anti hunting anti guns lets save the environment ones). I saw what happened to the u.p. of michigan from insane politicians on both sides coming up from the city with all their rules and regulations. I think with a little investigation you and many other liberals and even conservatives could realize you may be more libertarian than you think. I go with the live and let live dont tread on me approach. I like to keep democrats out of my wallet and republicans out of my bedroom. I guess you could help argue I dont like government bureacrats in general. I want freedom and nothing less. Sorry if I offended you.
Way up there you are pretty far from shopping and all and that area as well as up the North Fork Flathead, there are a lot of grizzly bears and timber-wolves so livestock and pets must be well guarded.
... and small children.
If you want to get away from other people and be alone, yet still be within a reasonable distance for your wife to work...you need to explore Montana extensively. What you are asking for, may not be something you can find here. Try looking in Alaska, the small mountain towns of WA, OR, and N. Cali may fit the bill too. Access would be better year round as well as weather conditions (your travel trailer will leave you pretty cold on many nights with a rating of 0 degrees - it gets much colder than that here).
BUT you can't tell from the listings how far from a county maintained road the properties are. It isn't something you can leave to a real estate agent--you need to get a bunch of listings together and come out and inspect them yourself.
OK, I've been in Montana a very short while but it wouldn't matter- there are things I'm reading/not reading in your posts that have me wondering.
IMHO, when you had the kid, you compromised your intended life style. While it might be a dream to raise the child in a rough & ready environment, is it fair to the child? Lots of us grew up out in the boonies, but, I guess I'm getting old- I'd want access to medical attention and not just from the RN in the family. Schools. Are you planning to home school? What about when the kid gets older and wants to hang out with friends or participate inextracurricular activities? I know from personal experience that it can be painful when you can't participate because it's too far away. Or are you going to home school? Some kids I went to school with rode the bus 50 miles one way- and I'll bet others on this board have even better tales than that.
I hear a lot of "I" and "me" in your posts- does your wife share this dream? Is she the only one working? How would she feel about an hour commute, one way, in the middle of winter? Is this something she wants to do the rest of her life? We all make compromises but there's a side we're not hearing here. I would not assume that if she stops doing the 3-month stints, she won't have to work night shifts. It's been my experience that with shift work, and if you're new person, you get the swing/graveyard shifts.
If your wife shares this vision, then OK. And it won't matter much where you end up for that. But for the kid, I don't know. I'd think about living closer to a town and getting some land for later, working on building what you need on it during school breaks and summers. The kid still learns a lot that way without missing out on having friends It gives you something you might move to, and have all ready, when the kid is ready to leave home. There will still be time, especially if you've got the bulk of it done.
Thanks for the listings and the replies. My wife does share the same dream as me. She met me when I was living in the remote u.p. so she knows I am a little bit crazy when it comes to where I live. I know kids ruin all your dreams... just kidding but I do think kids are pretty adaptable to whatever life throws their way. I do worry about my wife's commute though especially in the winter. She is used to an hour commute but not in snowy winter conditions. Hopefully someday I can make enough money that she won't have to work at all. It is subjective to say that raising your kids in a rural compared to suburban/urban environment is better or worse for the child. I appreciate everyones input. We will actually have to get some boots on the ground and check out all the areas and how realistic it may or may not be for us before we make any decisions.
Good that your wife is OK with the plan. I'm not even thinking urban/suburban. Just that the kid will have access to other kids without a long drive for a play date. Kids are adaptable but they don't always appreciate having to make certain adaptations. They don't always fall that close to the tree. I think of the farms in Eastern Washington and that sometimes you can see the next farm and sometimes you can't. Certainly not living in each other's laps but yet, they are there for each other and not so far away that the kids don't have others to interact with.
A word about winter driving, especially if your wife is not used to it. And I know that most on this board have way more experience in winter than I do! I used to have about a 30-45 minute drive to work that took that long because of traffic, mostly. Lived out in the country but had to commute in to work. One winter day, the freeway ended up like a waffle maker- it was that rough. Practically no one else was on it but I had one of those jobs where you just needed to get there, if you could. I planned ahead, took the long way to avoid the steeper hills, and it took about 2 hours to get in. I never got out of second gear for about two-thirds of the trip, in our 4X truck. The road was so rough that you'd slip and slide all over it because you were getting thrown around. Told them I wasn't coming back in the next day if I got home that night, because they had people in town where it wasn't near as bad who could cover my shift. And I rarely, rarely would do anything like that.
So if your wife would have an hour's commute on good roads..... Something to keep in mind.
Kids don't ruin things- they just change the equation
Seasonal access doesn't necessarily mean that the road gets closed on 1 October, only to be opened on 1 April. Seasonal access, in most cases, can simply mean that there is no winter maintenance. If there is little snow, you can probably still drive it, just fine, or at least be able to plow it. Where I live we have a lot of county road that is not maintained in the winter and it doesn't phase anybody. People still live there, they drive to work just like anybody else, just in real nasty weather, they might not be able to make it out. I have a friend that used to work on the next shift and was my relief. In one year she called in twice because she was unable to get out of her place, however, within a couple hours she made it to work. Just took a little time with the tractor to get out. She lived at the base of the mountains, which tends to get a lot more snow. Also, she drove a AWD SUV.
As far as kids growing up in an area like that, doesn't mean they're not going to have fun with other kids. As a matter of fact, they will have more fun when other kids all want to come out there to play in the woods. You should be able to get out to take your child to a buss stop, or to a friends house to wait for the buss. Where I grew up on the farm, it was 5 miles to the next farm that had a kid my age. Was no big deal, worked out great. I had chores to do with the cattle and sheep and when other kids would want to come out, they thought it was neat to work with the cattle and sheep. It made my work, more into play. Your child would get a better education in a remote area than they would living downtown Seattle.
Your best bet is to take a look at that land and see just how accessable it is during the winter. It could be just fine, or it could be 9 miles of hell to get in and out of. You have 4 wheel drive and that is twice as good as AWD, so you will be able to get around better than most.
I spent 16 months in Michigan in 1962-63 as division sales manager of a national corporation. It was the first time Lake Michigan froze over completely. It started snowing a couple of days before Halloween, and did not quit till after Easter. I was rear ended 6 times that winter, while stopped at stop signs.
The difference between Michigan where the highest mountain is 400 foot elevation, and Montana where they go well above 10,000 feet is the mountains. The snow there is wet and does not blow like it does here. You may find in Montana that a low area of your road out in the country, has a 5 foot drift due to heavy snow but as it is light it is a blowing snow with blizzard type conditons and you are not going to go through it. I live 50 miles out of Billings across the street from a small town, and our property and around it is level. An example about this time last year, we had a foot of snow, but our driveway had a 3 foot drift built up in it, and had to be plowed out or we would have been stuck in the house. We have a 600 foot lane to the house, and the entire lane was drifted with snow from 2 to 4 feet in places. No snow when you go to bed, and that is what you wake up to in the morning. And we live in the snow shadow of the Rockies and get little snow compared to other places.
How would your wife feel commuting home in the dark, and run into snow drifts that strand her, and out in the country like that there is no cell phone service to call for help.
This spring I had a medical appointment in Billings, and had to make it. Left home in dry weather, but coming home 4 hours later, on the Interstate there was a 15 mile area, where due to cars being blown off the very slick road as 4 inches of snow was blowing over the road and converted to ice and a 50 mile crosswind blowing cars everywhere. It took about 75 minutes to drive that 15 miles much of it at 5 miles per hour, and that was on an Interstate Highway. Due to bad weather, the trip home took 2 1/2 hours which is normally a 50 minute trip doctors to our door. We were driving the ideal vehicle for the trip. A 2012 Ford Explorer, automatic adjusting 4 wheel drive with electronic sensing drive, giving you what degree of drive including go to a solid locked axle to give you traction no matter what the driving conditions, or back to 2 wheal drive depending the traction you are getting. I have driven 4 wheel drive vehicles for 40 years, and this beats our Chevy Blazer and F150 pickup with standard 4 wheel drives all to pieces.
Your trailer is rated down to 0, but drop down to -20F and a 50 mile wind, and you can freeze in it. Montana can get lots of wind in winter. 25 to 50 Plus winds are common occurrences. You think you understand cold conditions and snow because you have lived on the UP, but you have a lot to learn about Montana. As someone that has lived both places, I can tell you from experience there is no comparison.
Montana is not a state if free thinking, rugged individualists as you seem to think. You will find the people here, are not much different than in Michigan. I knew a lot of people in Michigan back then of all types. We knew George Romney and remember Mitt when he was a teen age. My wife says the thing she remembers about him when she was in their home when he would come home from school, and was always hungry wanting to know what there was to eat. Worked on George's campaign for Governor, and was invited to the inauguration ball, and the private party the night before for campaign workers and friends. As I was raised in logging country, got to know loggers on the UP, and people working the line at the big 3 up to vice presidents there. I probably met more \\people from different walks in life in Michigan than any place I have ever lived. Same type of people with the same type of dreams live in Montana without the union influence.
My grandfather was born in Montana over in the Deer Lodge Valley on a ranch in 1867, so my family has been in Montana a long time. I was born in California and spent most of my life other places, but have had a long association with the state.
You can get land with privacy that will be close for your wife's commute, and even have electricity, etc. in Montana. You don't have to be an hour or at least half an hour in good weather commute. Remember that in bad weather here in Montana, an hour commute in good weather can be a three hour commute in winter if you are out like you want to be.
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. I know kids ruin all your dreams... just kidding but I do think kids are pretty adaptable to whatever life throws their way. I do worry about my wife's commute though especially in the winter. She is used to an hour commute but not in snowy winter conditions. Hopefully someday I can make enough money that she won't have to work at all. It is subjective to say that raising your kids in a rural compared to suburban/urban environment is better or worse for the child. I appreciate everyones input. We will actually have to get some boots on the ground and check out all the areas and how realistic it may or may not be for us before we make any decisions.
I think of the farms in Eastern Washington and that sometimes you can see the next farm and sometimes you can't. Certainly not living in each other's laps but yet, they are there for each other and not so far away that the kids don't have others to interact with. 
Something to keep in mind.
