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Old 02-17-2008, 02:30 AM
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Location: Arlee, MT
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Clint Folden is on a distinguished road
Default There is a Big Casino Near Glacier, LOL

I have to Laugh, the Blackfeet have built a Casino at the East Entrance of Glacier National Park, LOL.
GLACIER PEAKS CASINO
Junction of Highways
2 & 89 West
PO Box 1450
Browning, Montana
59417
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]I have read Jim, that it is doing very well, You can see a pic of it on the internet if You type the name into Google. As for the gaming, here on the Flathead, and in Browning as well, we have Type II non-regulated gaming, so we can have as many machines, and as big a payout as it can get, it is like progressive, similar to bingo, or the lottery, it is all inter-connected with other Tribes throughout Indian Country, and the cool thing about it is, since the State was so biased, and so typical anti-Indian, I think they were actually afraid that the Tribes throughout the State were actually going to make some real money, maybe even enough to provide proper health care, maybe even some proper Elder Care, and even some sort of retirement pension, sort of like social security to our Elders, so the state was very unfair, taking all the profits and leacing nothing for the Tribes, but with Class II gaming all the profits go to the Tribes, and not one single dime goes to the state. So, maybe the state should have been more honest with the split, and allowed the Tribes the same rights as the big casinos owned by non-tribal businesses. See the state allowed Lucky Lils, and other casinos to have huge numbers of machines, as well as huge payouts, which allowed the non-tribal casinos to draw larger crowds, more machines equaled more people playing, and larger payouts gave the gamblers more incentive to play at non-tribal casinos. But when the state laughed in the face of the Tribe when we asked for equal machines, and payouts the Tribe in turn laughed at the state when they offered the same arrangement we already had, which paid the state millions in gaming tax, and licensing. Since the state lost the compact they also lost the huge amount of revenue generated by the the Reservation Casinos, and since there is no compact the Casinos on the Reservation no longer exist, except for the 2 Tribally owned Casinos, and no one can have a casino on the Reservation unless it is a Class II casino, and the catch there is, the Tribe has to allow the casino, and the Tribe has said NO MORE CASIONOS, not even Tribal Member owned, thus, there is absolutely no money generated except through the Tribal Casinos. Yes it is kind of unfair, but those are the results of the state not negogiating in earnest with the Tribe.......................................End of Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
I think they would do just that if a agreement with the state could be reached. It's my understanding that the state and the "nation" that wants the casino have to have some sort of compact which up to now MT has been reluctant to enter into.
Also, If I'm not mistaken allowing vegas style casino gambling came up for a vote and the majority of the states voters said "no". If I remember correctly they (the Indians and a developer) wanted to build a big one in the southern part of the state but the worry was if that was legalized that would open the legal door to casinos everywhere in the state and you could easily see a casino just outside Glacier Park. The idea is that if you allow one on a reservation then you have to open all reservations to them so it was a big no. As for the current gambling compact, it's at a stalemate last I heard with neither side willing to budge. It's sad that neither side will bend but since I don't gamble nor drink it wouldn't bother me if there were/are less of them around...

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Old 02-17-2008, 02:52 AM
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Default Thank You Dee,

Very well put, thank You, and I would love to ride with You some day, not enough of that these days that is for certain, again, thank You...........


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4horseshoes View Post
Here's my 2 cents worth...

Original americans that lived here before all of the immigrates came over from over seas were back then, good, bad, and/or indifferent, just as the decendants are today.

They lived off the land out of no choice. Todays world is very different.

I am old fashioned in believing that we (me, included) waste to much. Live to fast to enjoy every day life, like sunsets, sunrises, flowers, birds, animals, scenery around us. I enjoy taking a horseback ride to enjoy the sights and sounds of nature around me, taking only pictures and memories with me.
I am poor money wise, but I believe in enjoying people and everything around me. The color of skin, policitical beliefs, reglious beliefs belong to each individual, doesn't make them good, bad and/or indifferent.

I personally just dislike dishonest, disrepectful people, mean people etc.
I think you get my drift...

I am out spoken, but I try to be honest, a good neighbor, friend, etc.

Just my opinion!
Generally not worth much if 2 cents

Dee

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Old 02-17-2008, 03:02 AM
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Default Man, How rude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All I can say is TypicalCalifornian, sounds like You have a chip on Your shoulder, I think she was asking because power and water are the norm. now days, I don't think she was looking to be ridiculed, but you must just be that way, you so darn good at it......................................

Quote:
Originally Posted by TypicalCalifornian View Post
Zoe said......I was in church a couple of weeks ago, and there was a discussion in missionary work, and the lady was saying that on reservation's there is no electricity, and no running water, is this true? If that is true I think that is horrible, and makes my heart break.

Zoe. When I was a kid, my family had no electricity or running water. Until a century ago no one who ever lived had electricity and mostly had no running water. Does your heart break for me and all the people who ever lived before me? Many, many people in the developing world don't even know they miss electricity and running water. Is that some sort of projection that only people who live like you and the ladies at the church can be happy? Do you read many of the post here about the people deliberately living on the edge's of society trying to make do with as little of the comforts as possible rather than how many? People who live on boats, in mountain aboriginal houses, etc?

Moderator cut: Personal attacks will not be tolerated

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Old 02-17-2008, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint Folden View Post
I have to Laugh, the Blackfeet have built a Casino at the East Entrance of Glacier National Park, LOL.
GLACIER PEAKS CASINO
Junction of Highways
2 & 89 West
PO Box 1450
Browning, Montana
59417
I have read Jim, that it is doing very well, You can see a pic of it on the internet if You type the name into Google. As for the gaming, here on the Flathead, and in Browning as well, we have Type II non-regulated gaming, so we can have as many machines, and as big a payout as it can get, it is like progressive, similar to bingo, or the lottery, it is all inter-connected with other Tribes throughout Indian Country, and the cool thing about it is, since the State was so biased, and so typical anti-Indian, I think they were actually afraid that the Tribes throughout the State were actually going to make some real money, maybe even enough to provide proper health care, maybe even some proper Elder Care, and even some sort of retirement pension, sort of like social security to our Elders, so the state was very unfair, taking all the profits and leacing nothing for the Tribes, but with Class II gaming all the profits go to the Tribes, and not one single dime goes to the state. So, maybe the state should have been more honest with the split, and allowed the Tribes the same rights as the big casinos owned by non-tribal businesses. See the state allowed Lucky Lils, and other casinos to have huge numbers of machines, as well as huge payouts, which allowed the non-tribal casinos to draw larger crowds, more machines equaled more people playing, and larger payouts gave the gamblers more incentive to play at non-tribal casinos. But when the state laughed in the face of the Tribe when we asked for equal machines, and payouts the Tribe in turn laughed at the state when they offered the same arrangement we already had, which paid the state millions in gaming tax, and licensing. Since the state lost the compact they also lost the huge amount of revenue generated by the the Reservation Casinos, and since there is no compact the Casinos on the Reservation no longer exist, except for the 2 Tribally owned Casinos, and no one can have a casino on the Reservation unless it is a Class II casino, and the catch there is, the Tribe has to allow the casino, and the Tribe has said NO MORE CASIONOS, not even Tribal Member owned, thus, there is absolutely no money generated except through the Tribal Casinos. Yes it is kind of unfair, but those are the results of the state not negogiating in earnest with the Tribe.......................................End of Story
I think the big argument about the new casino law was that it would've allowed vegas style gambling which was not wanted by the majority of the people outside of gambling. Personally I think all these little "one arm bandit" casinos are a blight on the landscape but as in all things that's just my opinion. As for the state negociatating fairly or allowing Lucky Lils to do things the tribes can't I'm not surprised, this is a "good o'le boys" state after all right? Personally I don't think it 's right that the indian nation should have to rely on gambling for it's income, I kind of equate it to a drug dealer relying on his sales to support himself. There's got to be a better way.

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Old 02-17-2008, 08:00 AM
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Clint- You are knowlegeable and passionate and therefore I would ask you to re-read my words. Sometimes white liberals get themselves wound up into a severe case of taking on "the white man's burden". The outcome of which is to inadvertently denigrate all people who do not care to live on the grid, live a conventional life, and for a variety of reasons feel they may have been born in the wrong time.

Should a group of people, like the group of people in question, find themselves best served by living a slower, less modern, contemplative life....well then I think it is a condescension on the part of those more conventional people to feel life cannot go on without their help in proviing all the goods and services of 2008 lest they suffer from chronic X-Box loss syndrome.

But you did of course take us to that most painful of places which is talking about a people who spend perhaps more time looking into their past and less into their present and future, to the detriment perhaps of the latter. I won't bore you with heroic tales of my ancestors tribulations, every group has their story for in the end we all live on the Serengeti plains of evolving tribal warfares reaching far back in time.

I have not the energy, nor you the time to hear an entire discourse on a theory but I will give you the gist...if I wanted to keep a group forever powerless, ineffective, unable to find their balance...I'd get them angry, and keep them angry. I'd make them feel as though their own grievances were so great, that their ability to carry on anything but task level survival was an overwhelming chore. Count the groups who are angry, calculate their ability to engage in complex, long term actions.

Peace.

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Old 02-17-2008, 12:29 PM
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Default Many Thanks My Friend,

Thank You, that was a very interesting comment, and I do see Your point, and I do agree, I do think that all peoples, are trying to get beyond their past, and get to a better place in the future, though I think it imperative that we never forget the past, and use it to make sure we don't return there, as it is of no use, and very hurtful. Thank You so much for Your thoughts, I am encouraged to continue on with my advancement, and love to here good, heartfelt comments as You presented, Sincerely, Clint

Quote:
Originally Posted by TypicalCalifornian View Post
Clint- You are knowlegeable and passionate and therefore I would ask you to re-read my words. Sometimes white liberals get themselves wound up into a severe case of taking on "the white man's burden". The outcome of which is to inadvertently denigrate all people who do not care to live on the grid, live a conventional life, and for a variety of reasons feel they may have been born in the wrong time.

Should a group of people, like the group of people in question, find themselves best served by living a slower, less modern, contemplative life....well then I think it is a condescension on the part of those more conventional people to feel life cannot go on without their help in proviing all the goods and services of 2008 lest they suffer from chronic X-Box loss syndrome.

But you did of course take us to that most painful of places which is talking about a people who spend perhaps more time looking into their past and less into their present and future, to the detriment perhaps of the latter. I won't bore you with heroic tales of my ancestors tribulations, every group has their story for in the end we all live on the Serengeti plains of evolving tribal warfares reaching far back in time.

I have not the energy, nor you the time to hear an entire discourse on a theory but I will give you the gist...if I wanted to keep a group forever powerless, ineffective, unable to find their balance...I'd get them angry, and keep them angry. I'd make them feel as though their own grievances were so great, that their ability to carry on anything but task level survival was an overwhelming chore. Count the groups who are angry, calculate their ability to engage in complex, long term actions.

Peace.

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Old 02-17-2008, 12:34 PM
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Default Very Greatful,

Damn Jim, what a thief You are, I couldn't have written it better myself, that was perfect. I think our Tribe, as with others are looking at ways of improving there fanancial state, we are looking into alternative power, such as wind generation, etc., which I would welcome much more than the Gaming, I don't gamble at all, and I do feel just as You about it, but it is seen as a way to improve our economy, and for now, I guess it will serve a purpose, though to what sacrifice I am not sure anyone really knows the full impacts it will have yet. Thank You very much Jim, Sincerely, Clint

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
I think the big argument about the new casino law was that it would've allowed vegas style gambling which was not wanted by the majority of the people outside of gambling. Personally I think all these little "one arm bandit" casinos are a blight on the landscape but as in all things that's just my opinion. As for the state negociatating fairly or allowing Lucky Lils to do things the tribes can't I'm not surprised, this is a "good o'le boys" state after all right? Personally I don't think it 's right that the indian nation should have to rely on gambling for it's income, I kind of equate it to a drug dealer relying on his sales to support himself. There's got to be a better way.

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Old 02-17-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint Folden View Post
I can not agree with the jist of this letter at all, Europeans did not attack the First Nations of America like a war, after the natives taught them how to survive, fed them, clothed them, made them strong again, then and only then, did they slowly and very abusively begin to kill the Natives off. I again think people need to really look at the history of Aboriginal/First Nations/Native American take over, it was NEVER called war. There were battles and there were mascures, usually when the europeans attacked the Natives it was called a battle, especially if they defeated the Natives, but if the Natives won, which was very seldom, it was called a masacure, and usually the Natives were called savages or barbaric. Though the history of scalp taking, and other brutal dealings of the bodies were brought to this country from else where. I think You, being of some Native heratige would be interested to really read about the brutality of some these as You call them WARs, I like to call them attacks. I especially like the battle of the big whole, on Black Elk, how the soldiers attacked at first light and shooting and useing cannon fire to anialate everyone in the encampment, women and children alike, now how in Gods name can You call that War, that is savagery at its best. You know the real problem is, that whites, wrote ALL the history books, only when someone decided to ask some of the survivors what really happened, did the truth really come out, there are a lot of those stories passed down now, and actually in print, interesting reading real history, accurate history, history without all the white twists to make it sound as though they were all abused and lucky to survive the murauding natives, and by God if someone did survive they were heros. ever wonder why we have so many holidays, like presidents day, President Lincoln, Martin Luther King Day, 4th of July, on and on and on, but there isn't ONE DAY in the U.S. to remember the 1ST People of this country, not that these other people aren't totally deserving, but come on, there were some very fearless, and great warriors, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, the list goes on and on, why the hell isn't there one day in this country to Honor those Fallen Heros, all they wanted was to live in peace, just as the Great Creator meant them to do. The real problem is, the natives would always agree to some treaty, or some twisted bulls**t line, and allow the Europeans to live in peace, as long as the natives could hunt, fish and properly take care of their people. But the minute the Whites found something like gold(Sioux Nation, Black Hills, the real reason Custer was in South East Montana, he was after GOLD), or rich soil, they would figure out a way to push the natives further and further away from their homelands, starvation and disease always prevailed, or just plain shoot them all. Also, look into some of the history of the gifts that the whites, europeans, newcomers, whatever You want to call them, gave to the Tribes, blankets contaminated with disease, smallpox, etc., and we think chemical or germ warfare is new, not on Your life, Millions and Millions of Natives were taken by disease, dieing so fast they couldn't even morn their dead. We here so much about the brutality of the Holocaust, but the first mass killing, or holocaust was right here in the U.S., and I am not certain, but the numbers of deaths were higher here among the Natives by the time it was all said and done that it out numbered the Jewish Holocaust victims. There were literally thousands of Tribes throughout his nation pre-european contact, and thousands of them were systematically anialated as You put it, Peoples and cultures gone forever, that my friend is NOT WAR, just like the Jews of the holocost, there was never war announced to them, no preperations of defense could be made. Hell how could the Natives defend themselves against canons, guns, long knives as they put it, there was no defense except in numbers. Hell the Tribes through out the history of European contact were always helping them survive, always believing their lies, and look what it got them, or at least some of them, a small piece of land to call their own, and You complain about Your tax dollars going to them, well rest assured Hon, You could never in a 100 years pay for what any of the Tribal People had to give up for everyone to live here. So, as far as I am concerned, the Treaty of 1855, is the only thing the Whites have stuck too, which is the year most western Tribes were forced onto their little peice of earth. Again, read some history, within 50 years, most of that land was even stolen from them, and every right we were suppose to get in those treaties, we have had to fight to keep, look at our hunting, fishing, and gathering rights, look at the history of how the National Bison Range was aquired and what really happened to the money that was suppose to be paid to my Tribe for that 80,000 acres. The Feds decided they would use it to survey the rest of the Reservation so it could be cut into small pieces for, guess what for???? So that it could be divided up for Allotments, and White settlement, which it took some slick Lawyer almost 50 years to figure out how to find a legal loop hole in the treaty to open up our Reservation to white settlement. Seriously, look into some REAL history of the U.S. and it's Aboriginal People, I think, by the sounds of Your letter, You will be truly shocked, and possibly understand better why some Native People are angry, why some are so slow to assimilate, the idea of owning land is still somewhat hard to grasp by our Elders, how can One own a piece of earth, it was given to the people to live on, and they were to take care of it, and to treat it as a gift from the Creator, not like a possesion, and certainly not destory it, as it provided everything we needed, food, water, CLEAN WATER, HEALTHY FOOD, medicine from the plants, even birth control, so we wouldn't grow beyond our means. Enough said, I hope I too did not offend, but I had to let You know how I feel about the subject, and maybe why some feel so angry at times, some in another letter said it well, "we have become comedians, so we can laugh a lot, for it really helps cover up the pain....................
First of all, we don't know for sure who drew first blood and it really doesn't matter. We are all human and we all have the sin nature. You think all Aboriginal American nations of people lived in harmony and sung some precurser to John Lenon's "Imagine?" Head hunting, scalping, human sacrifice, and warfare or whatever you want to call it was just as much a part of the Aboriginal Americans (North and South America) as their Eurasian and African counterparts. You can disagree with me all you want to, but your disagreement doesn't negate or usurp the facts. And the facts are, human nature is inherently evil at it's core no matter your nationality, skin complexion, language, or continent of origin. The whole history of man from the Fall in the Garden of Eden until this day has been racked with murders, rapes, slayings, massacres, wars, revolutions, assimilations, deportations, etc., etc., etc. As I said, I'm not here to justify or assess the moral implications of all of this. I am simply stating that the conflicts, massacres, murders, and wars between the modern-day Europeans and the Aboriginal Americans is nothing new in the history of the human race! You can go through your life acting as though it was done to you and go around blaming today's White folks for the misfortunes of the Aboriginees, or you can carve out your own life and let the past stay in the past. It's good and necessary to learn from the past, but not to live it! As also was stated. Most if not all nations and empires that have come and gone in human history have been forged and carved out of war, murder, rape, savagry, and massacre! America is no exception! It is our ancestors that dealt with that, not us. We are who we are and choose to be today in 2008 AD.

One final thesis. You and other Aboriginal Americans talk about White people this and that. Yet most of you don't even have a clue as to your own combined Ancient Eurasian and African origins! Genetic mapping and ancient migratory patterns, plus ancient writings of trade routes and migrations all relate and are in concert with each other that the Pre-Columbian Americans (Aboriginal Americans) are themselves descended from a vast collection of various nationalities from the Old WOrldstarting around 2000 plus BC and continuing till about 200 AD. These nationalities included Ancient Canaanites, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Greeks, Israelites, Basques, Ires, Britons, Romans, Chinese, etc. All these people are either Black, White or varying degrees of Black/White Mix. All people on Earth are either White, Black, or Mixed. Genetics and ancient descriptions and cross-corroborating data all point to this fact. Early French and Spanish explorers came across Black "Indian" tribes and White "Indian" tribes, and all this well before the slave trade so it can't be blamed on runaway slaves or the slave trade. They were already well in existence. Most, however, had mixed in the past 1,200 or 1,300 years and thus have what people envision as the "Pocahontas Look" which is nothing other than a degree of Black/White admixture. Nothing wrong with this at all. But Aboriginal AMericans today love to consider themselves a separate race from Black and White, while all the while being a mixture of the 2 regardless! If you don't believe any of this, I have much information that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt these claims. Let me wrap this up by saying we all descend from Adam and Eve and are thus all literally blood related and one big extended family on Earth. If people realized this it might at least cut down on as much atrocities of human-to-human brutality. Have a great day.

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Old 02-18-2008, 07:27 AM
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Atalanta is on a distinguished road
You know what I get frustrated at most by most of the people here when they make a comment.


Their thinking and comments come across very arogant.

NO ONE knows the effect of what the Native Americans went thru!
WE were not there!!!!!!!!!

WE don't know what that does to one that endures such hardship.
Endures such loss of dignity,
endures such killing of ones own children and family members
endures seeing our culture and way of living being killed


I get so sick of people who say this and say that when You have the least bit of inckling of the effects of what they went thru.
The human mind is complex.

And this thread is about Native Americans, so don't go throwing around what happened to other cultures.

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Old 02-18-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta View Post
You know what I get frustrated at most by most of the people here when they make a comment.


Their thinking and comments come across very arogant.

NO ONE knows the effect of what the Native Americans went thru!
WE were not there!!!!!!!!!

WE don't know what that does to one that endures such hardship.
Endures such loss of dignity,
endures such killing of ones own children and family members
endures seeing our culture and way of living being killed


I get so sick of people who say this and say that when You have the least bit of inckling of the effects of what they went thru.
The human mind is complex.

And this thread is about Native Americans, so don't go throwing around what happened to other cultures.
So, according to your logic, we should never discuss history because we didn't experience it first hand?

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