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Old 02-06-2014, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Eastern Montana
606 posts, read 1,978,565 times
Reputation: 644

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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyfan View Post
I am not the best advisor. I would keep the dog and or give it to a friend & be damned with consequences. But I am old crotchety and have resources. You need do what fits your situation. If you deem your neighbor is a wacko, do not put your family at risk.
I agree. This dog should just "mysteriously" disappear. I'm sure there is a shelter that would accept him, and neuter him too!

Tracey
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,087 posts, read 15,161,188 times
Reputation: 3740
Pro dog trainer here with over 40 years experience.

Firstoff, neutering has nothing to do with roaming. Not being confined is the cause of roaming. Some breeds will roam no matter what (pretty much any breed whose job is to run a long distance for any purpose -- huskies, hounds, some pointers) and no amount of training will stop it. Others you practically can't kick out of the yard. Still others don't roam unless something instigates it (one dog will stay home; two usually won't).

Second, for spayed/neutered dogs the risk of cancer skyrockets, plus there are negative temperament changes.

JAVMA abstract:
Evaluation of the risk and age of onset of cancer and behavioral disorders in gonadectomized Vizslas

Easy-to-understand synopsis of the stats:
New Research That Raises Questions About Current Neutering Recommendations « speakingforspot.com

Boiled down for the layman:

All cancers combined: 6.5 times higher incidence of cancer in neutered females compared to nonneutered females; 3.6 times higher incidence of cancer in neutered males compared to nonneutered males. Early neutering is also directly associated with a marked increase in abnormally fearful behavior; neutering at any age is associated with increased fear of storms (ie. any noise without apparent source).

As to this dog -- it needs some kind of shelter, even if it chooses not to use it. (I've had dogs that thought sleeping out in the howling wind when it was -40F was just fine -- their choice.) It doesn't need to be much -- a barrel, a couple pieces of plywood nailed up as a lean-to, a large cardboard box (corrugated cardboard is an excellent insulator), a couple bales of straw it can curl up between, even a snowbank (snow is also an excellent insulator). If it's loose it will find shelter when it needs it, just as wolves and coyotes do. If it's tied up, well, then it can't.

The owner is an idiot, but be careful what you wish for. 'Animal cruelty' is nebulous enough that it can be applied to virtually any animal in any situation, based on an ignorant person's opinion rather than the welfare of the animal. You do NOT want to let that beast's nose into the tent.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,757 posts, read 22,661,296 times
Reputation: 24910
Personally I would bring the dog inside and give it a nice bed and some food, maybe a hot toddy and then go chain the owner to the tree in -32 weather with no shelter and food.

But that's just me.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,087 posts, read 15,161,188 times
Reputation: 3740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
Personally I would bring the dog inside and give it a nice bed and some food, maybe a hot toddy and then go chain the owner to the tree in -32 weather with no shelter and food.
Well, personally I think if you feel like "something needs to be done" then you'd better have the balls to DO that something, so...
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,744 posts, read 4,234,073 times
Reputation: 6503
Quote:
Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
I know this belongs in the pet forum but I would like some input from Montana folks as this occurred in Montana. Our neighbor has a wonderful dog that he does not take care of. Twice now in sub zero temperatures (-13 this morning). Both times the dog has ended up on my porch and I have let him in. The neighbor called me after the first time and yelled at me telling me to kick the dog in the head to make it come home. Of course I refused. Aside from the fact the dog is scared of the man and runs the second it gets a chance, dog is not neutered so of course it runs. The owner hid in the bushes this morning and saw the me let the dog out. He proceeded to scream at me and accuse me of dog theft. He said he was going to call the cops and have me arrested. Can he do that? The dog is constantly left outside, chained to a tree in sub zero temperatures. The first time he escaped, the owner left for a week and the dog chewed out of his harness. I have cut matts of hair off of him due to lack of grooming. The owner is such a ****** that someone took his last dog yet the man continues to get dog after dog.

It's cruelty and you did the right thing. In any state.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Worcester
72 posts, read 97,331 times
Reputation: 61
Any decent human being that has morals would consider that forcing a dog to stay out in -13 temperatures is cruelty.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,087 posts, read 15,161,188 times
Reputation: 3740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worcester View Post
Any decent human being that has morals would consider that forcing a dog to stay out in -13 temperatures is cruelty.
Well, not exactly. Read some of the other posts above. Most medium to larger dogs (and some small ones) LIKE being out in the cold; many are more comfortable in the cold than at indoor temps. And dogs that work outdoors need to stay acclimated.

Cripes, the other day one of my young Labs had a good time rolling around in the snow, then proceeded to lay on the ice and chew a bone for an hour or so. It was -21 out. Obviously she wasn't the least bit chilly.

Gives me shivers just to watch 'em at it, but I don't mistake human comfort for canine comfort.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,757 posts, read 22,661,296 times
Reputation: 24910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Well, personally I think if you feel like "something needs to be done" then you'd better have the balls to DO that something, so...
Oh I got that covered, don't worry. I have a cat in my garage right now that never wants to see their prior owner again and she was smart enough to adopt us (and I'm not particularly fond of cats- but I do have a conscious).

My dogs like to romp in this stuff too, and they're shorthairs, but they are not chained and can run, play and come in when they are ready. If I saw someone else's dog tied to a tree in this stuff I'd have the boltcutters in my hand.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 42,057,790 times
Reputation: 2147483647
My dog is half Blue Healer and half Border Collie. She loves to be outside, even when it's cold. I carefully watch for, what I call, the three legged dance. When the pads of her feet get cold, she lifts a paw off the ground for a few seconds, then puts it back and lifts another one, then puts it back and lifts another one. Even then, she doesn't want to go inside, so I'll run her for a bit, playing. Then she's fine for another few minutes. The second time she does it, I make her go inside.

Obviously, something needs to be done with your neighbors dog. My thoughts are, just be careful and make sure you are in the right, or, you are undetected.

When I am on my 4wheeler, my dog Timber doesn't get a chance to stay warm by running. She rides up on the tool box, in back. But she stays warm. See!

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Old 02-06-2014, 09:24 PM
 
18,836 posts, read 37,360,870 times
Reputation: 26469
Elk should be a "Dog Fashion Stylist" to the stars in Beverly Hills.

Too cold for anyone out there, especially in the wind. Be careful though, people who are cruel to animals can be psycho.
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