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Old 06-24-2014, 07:15 PM
 
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From what I understand after lurking on this forum for eight years now, lack of jobs and the weather seem to be the main reasons new residents to your state ultimately leave. Which of the two do you feel is most likely to defeat a person's determination to stay?
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
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That is entirely dependent on the person.

For some, long grey winters sap the spirit, the incessant cold and endless snow, the cold winds, fighting to keep your car running, slick roads all contribute.

Some folks can't handle the fact that we don't have the clubs or amusements of larger cities. Few concerts, no dance clubs, we are usually behind the release of big movie productions reaching our movie houses, shopping can be limited in selection and variety.
Some can't take the isolation because they can't find people that share their political point of view. (this state is pretty libertarian / conservative so finding a real hard core liberal outside Missoula city limits is harder than milking a grizzly ).

For some, when you only value money, and there is a distinct lack of that here, you have to move somewhere there is plenty of the only thing you value.

Not everyone has the mental fortitude to put up with any inconvenience, so they have to be somewhere they can be taken care of and entertained 24/7 by others.

This is a fantastic place to live, but it isn't for every one.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: 406
1,423 posts, read 1,543,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
From what I understand after lurking on this forum for eight years now, lack of jobs and the weather seem to be the main reasons new residents to your state ultimately leave. Which of the two do you feel is most likely to defeat a person's determination to stay?
I've never really known climate to a be a push-factor for transplants who leave the state, and over the years I've known many transplants who've stayed and many who haven't. People who move here can usually take the colder seasons just as well as we super-duper-scary-strong Montanans who have put up with it for most/all of our lives.

Ultimately, transplants leave Montana for, I think, the same reasons that native Montanans do, and those reasons usually revolve around the fact that, economically speaking, the state is so full of dead ends and sh*tty deals, especially for those who have completed post-HS educations and would simply like to be paid what they're worth in other parts of the country and advance accordingly.

The bottom line, I believe, is that Montana, mostly because of its governance but also, in some ways, its culture, doesn't do a very good job of taking care of its people. No, not because state and local bureaucracy doesn't have enough omnipresence (because it most certainly does), but because there's often an indifference--or even outright antipathy--toward the idea that individuals should have the choices and/or opportunities to advance and prosper in their professional lives, be them from the blue-collar or white-collar ranks. We don't always think of Montanans as being ones to subscribe to that kind of group-think, but there are many who do, and it makes it that much easier for our leaders to disregard us in favor of special interests that couldn't give a damn about Montana or its citizens.

I've more or less beaten this topic to death elsewhere, so having answered your question as briefly and generally as possible, I'll cap it off right here.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:17 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
7,740 posts, read 9,037,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
From what I understand after lurking on this forum for eight years now, lack of jobs and the weather seem to be the main reasons new residents to your state ultimately leave. Which of the two do you feel is most likely to defeat a person's determination to stay?
The weather wasn't a problem for me. The problem was low paying jobs and very few middle class jobs to be had.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:06 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,857,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
That is entirely dependent on the person.

For some, long grey winters sap the spirit, the incessant cold and endless snow, the cold winds, fighting to keep your car running, slick roads all contribute.

Some folks can't handle the fact that we don't have the clubs or amusements of larger cities. Few concerts, no dance clubs, we are usually behind the release of big movie productions reaching our movie houses, shopping can be limited in selection and variety.
Some can't take the isolation because they can't find people that share their political point of view. (this state is pretty libertarian / conservative so finding a real hard core liberal outside Missoula city limits is harder than milking a grizzly ).

For some, when you only value money, and there is a distinct lack of that here, you have to move somewhere there is plenty of the only thing you value.

Not everyone has the mental fortitude to put up with any inconvenience, so they have to be somewhere they can be taken care of and entertained 24/7 by others.

This is a fantastic place to live, but it isn't for every one.
MTSilvertip, thank you so much for answering. I live in a little mountain town so I am hoping that Montana will actually seem a little more like what I remember this place being thirty years ago. We used to joke that they rolled the sidewalks up at sunset. I personally like the slower pace of life. I have researched the Bitterroot Valley, not so much for the beauty, although it is beautiful, but more for the fact it seems to be a little less harsh as far as weather. My concern is I will be closing in on 59 by the time I am able to move next year. Not ancient yet, but I have wondered about the much colder weather and also the lack of jobs that everyone kindly reminds people who are thinking of making Montana their home. I am semi retired now, and the kind of jobs wouldn't matter...minimum wage would be fine. I guess now that the time to move is getting closer, I'm wondering if I am crazy for considering this. I like to think I'm not a soft flatlander but Montana sounds like it can kick your butt if you don't respect it. Do older, not fabulously wealthy people move there and not turn tail and run? Sorry, I didn't mean to ramble.

Last edited by toryturner; 06-25-2014 at 10:36 PM..
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:12 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,857,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoEagle View Post
The weather wasn't a problem for me. The problem was low paying jobs and very few middle class jobs to be had.
WyoEagle, Hi there. I have read your posts often during my time on this forum and I gathered that the lack of job opportunities was what bothered you in regard to Montana. I have looked at other states in the west, but when you take Wasington and Oregon out of the equation the cold weather really starts to be a factor. The job situation is different for me because of partial retirement, but still. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:34 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,857,936 times
Reputation: 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montguy View Post
I've never really known climate to a be a push-factor for transplants who leave the state, and over the years I've known many transplants who've stayed and many who haven't. People who move here can usually take the colder seasons just as well as we super-duper-scary-strong Montanans who have put up with it for most/all of our lives.

Ultimately, transplants leave Montana for, I think, the same reasons that native Montanans do, and those reasons usually revolve around the fact that, economically speaking, the state is so full of dead ends and sh*tty deals, especially for those who have completed post-HS educations and would simply like to be paid what they're worth in other parts of the country and advance accordingly.

The bottom line, I believe, is that Montana, mostly because of its governance but also, in some ways, its culture, doesn't do a very good job of taking care of its people. No, not because state and local bureaucracy doesn't have enough omnipresence (because it most certainly does), but because there's often an indifference--or even outright antipathy--toward the idea that individuals should have the choices and/or opportunities to advance and prosper in their professional lives, be them from the blue-collar or white-collar ranks. We don't always think of Montanans as being ones to subscribe to that kind of group-think, but there are many who do, and it makes it that much easier for our leaders to disregard us in favor of special interests that couldn't give a damn about Montana or its citizens.

I've more or less beaten this topic to death elsewhere, so having answered your question as briefly and generally as possible, I'll cap it off right here.
Montguy, Thank you so much for answering my post. I have read your posts often. I hear your struggle with trying to find a balance with job growth but not wanting Montana to be just like everywhere else. It's a difficult balance. That's one reason I have never even considered retiring to Colorado. I loved it when I visited as a kid, but I have no desire to go there anymore. It's like they lost what made Colorado special. Oh well. Thank you for your perspective on jobs.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
4,919 posts, read 5,804,496 times
Reputation: 8306
Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
MTSilvertip, thank you so much for answering. I live in a little mountain town so I am hoping that Montana will actually seem a little more like what I remember this place being thirty years ago. We used to joke that they rolled the sidewalks up at sunset. I personally like the slower pace of life. I have researched the Bitterroot Valley, not so much for the beauty, although it is beautiful, but more for the fact it seems to be a little less harsh as far as weather. My concern is I will be closing in on 59 by the time I am able to move next year. Not ancient yet, but I have wondered about the much colder weather and also the lack of jobs that everyone kindly reminds people who are thinking of making Montana their home. I am semi retired now, and the kind of jobs wouldn't matter...minimum wage would be fine. I guess now that the time to move is getting closer, I'm wondering if I am crazy for considering this. I like to think I'm not a soft flatlander but Montana sounds like it can kick your butt if you don't respect it. Do older, not fabulously wealthy people move there and not turn tail and run? Sorry, I didn't mean to ramble.
No sweat Toryturner, this is the place to ask questions.

There are a lot of folks that are more mature and move here, and love it. It mostly depends on the person.

We have a lot of Veterans here who retired and came here to find peace and quiet and the company of a large Veteran population, many of them are in their 50's - 60's and since they have a pension, they can work part time a a sporting goods store or whatever, and do just fine.

The Bitterroot is a great place, personally I prefer the Clark Fork and Sanders County because of the great people that live there, (and the great fishing!! ), but west of the divide, while usually not as cold during the winter, is much wetter and greyer than the east side. If you don't mind murky, and lots of snow, west is best.

East of the divide will get COLD. More wind, but usually the clouds will break and you will have glorious sunny days on a regular basis. It just depends on what you like.

The small town, good place to live vibe is available in a lot of places in the east, probably the best would be around Lewistown, similar to the Bitterroot in many ways, but more open.

If you have the option, take a couple of trips out here, see the places for yourself, sit in the early moring cafe's and meet the real locals. Most of them love to chat about the area.

Central and eastern Montana don't have as much of the tourist vibe that the west does, but the people are really great, the hunting and fishing are unequaled, and most of the east is a lot cheaper to live in than the west, if not as mindblowingly spectacular in scenery, (unless you like Island Mountain chains and long prarie vistas or the badlands ).
Still has that "old style" charm and hospitality that has died out in the larger places like you mentioned in Colorado.

Good Luck!
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Back at home in western Washington!
1,490 posts, read 3,949,220 times
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Very low paying jobs, no offered benefits, employers that treat employees like slave labor, high cost of living, lengthy drives to and from work, not having the correct last name in a small town, gossipy busy-bodies that (mentally) never got out of junior high (same small town), the desire to have family near us again...I can think of a few more given time.

These are all contributing factors for us leaving. We've struggled along for 8 years, and realized that we just aren't thriving here. Both of us working full time plus extra work on the weekends, and we still aren't making ends meet. It works for some...it hasn't worked for us.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:40 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,857,936 times
Reputation: 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
No sweat Toryturner, this is the place to ask questions.

There are a lot of folks that are more mature and move here, and love it. It mostly depends on the person.

We have a lot of Veterans here who retired and came here to find peace and quiet and the company of a large Veteran population, many of them are in their 50's - 60's and since they have a pension, they can work part time a a sporting goods store or whatever, and do just fine.

The Bitterroot is a great place, personally I prefer the Clark Fork and Sanders County because of the great people that live there, (and the great fishing!! ), but west of the divide, while usually not as cold during the winter, is much wetter and greyer than the east side. If you don't mind murky, and lots of snow, west is best.

East of the divide will get COLD. More wind, but usually the clouds will break and you will have glorious sunny days on a regular basis. It just depends on what you like.

The small town, good place to live vibe is available in a lot of places in the east, probably the best would be around Lewistown, similar to the Bitterroot in many ways, but more open.

If you have the option, take a couple of trips out here, see the places for yourself, sit in the early moring cafe's and meet the real locals. Most of them love to chat about the area.

Central and eastern Montana don't have as much of the tourist vibe that the west does, but the people are really great, the hunting and fishing are unequaled, and most of the east is a lot cheaper to live in than the west, if not as mindblowingly spectacular in scenery, (unless you like Island Mountain chains and long prarie vistas or the badlands ).
Still has that "old style" charm and hospitality that has died out in the larger places like you mentioned in Colorado.

Good Luck!
Thank you!
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