Still think MT has is bad? (real estate market, home, employment)

[Stephan_K]

I found this on a different forum and though that everyone in this one should check it out if they haven't already. It is an eye opening 13 minutes!

Immigration by the Numbers.mov

MT has it pretty good considering what is coming in yearly!

[JoeJoeMan]

Here try this one to....
The Illegal Immigration Invasion..


Our politicians are bunch of - (insert your own choice words here) for letting this go on.........all of them

[JoeJoeMan]

Stephn_K wrote:

MT has it pretty good considering what is coming in yearly!

First off the illegals don't come to Montana because the pay is to cheap, seriously they can make more in just about every other state, why should they come all the way up here to work for minimum wages (like most montanans have to do). Which is a pretty sad commentary on our state.

Second, the illegal problem has caused many other people in the effected areas of this country to flee, and where do they flee too ? You guessed it - Montana. And it is those that can afford to flee that do, and that demographic is a main reason that caused the outrageous home and realestate prices that have now taken over much of our state. So don't kid yourself, you and your children will literal be paying 10's of thousands, actually make that 100's of thousands of dollars more to own the american dream - a home. The illegals have ALREADY turned your american dream into a nightmare - even here in Montana.

[Stephan_K]

JoeJoeMan,

You missed something important.......that graph DID NOT even include the illegals. That red part of the graph is for legal immigration as it is today. Illegals make it even worse than what the census bureau had data on . I didn't think immigration was that high but when you throw illegals in there it becomes a nastier animal than it already is.

Ya illegals chase people out and some do move to MT, the ones that can afford it this day and age. I don't expect I would see any illegals in MT that often (unless one was hanging from a tree half gutted ) But I think overall the influx to MT is less than everywhere else, especially considering that graph!

I will check out the link you posted when I get more time. Pretty much a full length doc there........

[8 SNAKE]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

First off the illegals don't come to Montana because the pay is to cheap, seriously they can make more in just about every other state, why should they come all the way up here to work for minimum wages (like most montanans have to do). Which is a pretty sad commentary on our state.

Second, the illegal problem has caused many other people in the effected areas of this country to flee, and where do they flee too ? You guessed it - Montana. And it is those that can afford to flee that do, and that demographic is a main reason that caused the outrageous home and realestate prices that have now taken over much of our state. So don't kid yourself, you and your children will literal be paying 10's of thousands, actually make that 100's of thousands of dollars more to own the american dream - a home. The illegals have ALREADY turned your american dream into a nightmare - even here in Montana.

Joe, you're making some pretty wild assumptions there. On the one hand, you say that illegals are avoiding Montana because of the prevailing wages. On the other hand, you are saying that Americans are flocking to Montana because the illegals are driving them out of higher paying areas? I'm afraid that one doesn't hold water with me.

I suspect that you're going to see an influx of people move to areas like Montana and Idaho in the next decade, because so many baby boomers are retiring. They can afford to move up there and not be dependent on employment to meet their economic needs. The end result (higher home prices, due to increased demand) is the same, but the cause is far, far different from what you've described.

[truckingbronco]

Good thing I still have that bomb shelter from Y2K...

[JoeJoeMan]

8 Snake Wrote:

Joe, you're making some pretty wild assumptions there. On the one hand, you say that illegals are avoiding Montana because of the prevailing wages. On the other hand, you are saying that Americans are flocking to Montana because the illegals are driving them out of higher paying areas? I'm afraid that one doesn't hold water with me.

Au contraire my fine friend - The people moving here from other parts of the country are not coming here for jobs, they don't need jobs they are well enough off already. I think that article (research findings) that was posted awhile back on this board about the economics of the Bitterroot valley bares me out on that fact.

And yes of course I agree with you that people are moving here as retirees, the article bares that out to. But that doesn't exclude that fact that many many people, retirees included, are moving here to "get away" - people state that reason everyday on this board as a reason why they want to get out of where they are. And of course they want to move to someplace nice, so in on one hand they are being pushed from where there are and on the other hand they are being drawn here.
I dare say that if Calif was as it was before the millions of illegals over took it, it would still be quite nice and people wouldn't be leaving it in such numbers.

Stephn_K Wrote:

You missed something important.......

I'm not sure what point that was that I missed? That things would be worse when considering the illegals - well I'd agree with that. And yea the influx is less in MT, but it is still happening. They just have better paying places to go for now.

I still say people should stay where they are and fix the problems that exisit there rather than running from them and moving to MT that only exasperates the problem. OR as people like to tell me all the time "except the change". People on this forum all the time are saying how they would like to move here and be a part of the community and a good citizen, while at the same time turning there back on their own community when it faces problems - they cut and run, leaving others to sop up the illegal and other social problems.
Which brings up another point about why so many people have a bad taste in their mouths for Califs....I think they see them as people who screwed up (or let it get screwed up) their own state and now they wanna come up here, instead of staying there and fixing the problems, it's the old "you made your bed now lay in it" - and we don't like to hear the old "Yea but it wasn't my fault" - if you lived there - it was in part your fault. Their overwhelming liberal and indulgent mind set allowed those problems to vester and build. Need I say more - they bascially to this day - stick their head in the sand, more concerned with indulging their sense then taking on the distaste task of clean up their mess they got themselves in. And that's true for a lot of other places in the country.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

I'm not sure what point that was that I missed? That things would be worse when considering the illegals - well I'd agree with that. And yea the influx is less in MT, but it is still happening. They just have better paying places to go for now.

The bigger picture and point I think you are missing is that you seem to be blaming the influx of people to MT and the US for that matter on illegal immigration overall which is far from what is actually happening. Illegal immigration, while it is a problem to the people of the US, is a small piece of the puzzle relative to the legal immigration problem we currently have and have had since 1965. Adding the illegal immigration problem on top of that red area on that chart of legal immigration just adds insult to injury for American people. That is pretty messed up!

As stated in a different thread, the population is growing therefore everywhere will experience influx of people as people move around within the growing population. That will never change. I would be happy if only retirees and those with money and values looking to get away from the rat race moved to my area and increased the value of everything instead of the alternative. That is something to be thankful for in my opinion, as it could be the other way around like it is in many other areas of the US. Sadly enough to say, one of these 2 ways will happen.........now which one do you want it to be?

The only way this will not happen is if legal immigration is reduced tremendously which will NEVER happen. Gov is getting too fat over it. The The Gov reducing immigration has as much of a chance as one trying to take a steak bone from a starving rabid dog........Ain't never gonna happen!

[ElkHunter]

We can only hope. If you think they will survive, then so be your thinking. You are wrong and we won't let it happen.

[8 SNAKE]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Au contraire my fine friend - The people moving here from other parts of the country are not coming here for jobs, they don't need jobs they are well enough off already. I think that article (research findings) that was posted awhile back on this board about the economics of the Bitterroot valley bares me out on that fact.

And yes of course I agree with you that people are moving here as retirees, the article bares that out to. But that doesn't exclude that fact that many many people, retirees included, are moving here to "get away" - people state that reason everyday on this board as a reason why they want to get out of where they are. And of course they want to move to someplace nice, so in on one hand they are being pushed from where there are and on the other hand they are being drawn here.
I dare say that if Calif was as it was before the millions of illegals over took it, it would still be quite nice and people wouldn't be leaving it in such numbers.

Joe, I'm still not following your logic. We both agree that people are moving to Montana, Idaho, etc to "get away" or whatever they choose to call it. However, I still contend that these people are mostly boomers that are retiring that have wanted to live in the area for a long time but couldn't (or wouldn't) move there during their working years. The people aren't being "driven" up there by an influx of illegal (or legal) immigrants, they're choosing to move up there now that the opportunity is available to them. Your post also seems to support this because you claim that most of the new residents are not in need of employment (thus being retirees).

In contrast, almost every post that I see in this forum from a person talking about moving to Montana mentions the need for employment. In addition, I would bet that a very small percentage of the people talking about moving to Montana actually follow through with the relocation. Most are probably venting or dreaming, so I take the posts with a grain of salt (though there's certainly nothing wrong with doing either). Others may think that a change of scenery will lead to a different life (and some of them may actually move), but most find that life stays the same even though the view changes and they move on to the next great "escape" (see the Alaska forum for more of this).

To take things a step further, I could imagine Montana becoming the next California of the real estate market. A lot of people are moving out of California because the run-up in real estate values has allowed residents to cash out (more than being driven out) and go somewhere else. Some of them are going to Montana and you're seeing values being driven up there now. Over time, some people will cash out and others will burn out in Montana and you'll see values drop as people go on to the next place. Additionally, I see the real estate market in Montana being a lot more volatile than California because there isn't anywhere near the economic structure to support high home prices. When the fall comes in Montana, it will be severe.