trying to buy first home

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Radek

Just because I have to... you people have dealt with some ****ty contractors and agents. A good agent will look for the house you want. Here's a story my father (who was a real estate agent) told me once.

A man calls him up, says he wants to buy a particular house for like $250k. My father asks, great, but why are you calling me and not the listing agent? Man replies, I did. Agent asked him what he did for a living, and the man replied, "I work milking cows for $12/hr." The agent hung up. My father stayed on the phone, and listened a bit more, and the man told him that he had saved up $50k for a downpayment. My father immediately replied that he'd be glad to talk more about the house and got the sale.

A good agent listens to the customer and their needs. Same is true for car salesman, or anyone on commission. Yeah, you may not get that rush sale, but you'll get repeat business. So, I'm sorry people have had lots of bad experiences, but know that not every agent is like that.

Same is true with contractors. But for them, as its been said, reputation and inspecting their work is very very important.

Very true!
Unfortunately with the recent building boom and lack of any real regulations there are more shady contractors since all it takes is $50 and a tool belt to be one than there are realtors that have to actually have a license.

[JoeJoeMan]

Radek wrote:

A good agent will look for the house you want.

No argument there. Anybody that does what 'you' want is good by definition. The problem is finding a good one. I don't anyone that has ever meet a realestate person that would say they weren't good, we all thing we're good.
When I was looking for a house, I can't tell you how many agents I worked with or talked to......I must say I didn't find a one of them very willing to work with me to find a house I wanted. In fast I found out that that was a really big turn off for adgents, as soon as said I was looking for a certain type of house in certain areas, they lost interest. I attribute that behavior to the fact that they saw me as not a quick sale, somethey weren't just going to shuffle into a house. And the facts bore that out in that the few agents I did work with would say..."oh let's go look at this one".....9 out of ten times it wasn't even in the area I was interested in. Sorry if I talked to 40 agents at open houses and the like trying to find a 'good' agent, I'd get alot of lip service about how they were going to help, but none never did.
I remember one lady in particular, very nice and all she was, she specialize in an area I was interested in. I mentioned for her that I want a house in her specialized area, and the house should be such and such size, quite street, etc...and that she didn't have to drive me around showing me houses, just call me up when a house fitting that description popped up, I'd drive by, if then we could go look at it, and that for a few hours she could make a sale, and that it might take a little longer to find what I want, but I didn't require her to give me much of her time, Now you would think agents would jump at a chance to make an easy buck - WRONG, what they want is 'a live one' - someone who needs a house 'now - someone who they show 10 houses and they buy !
Yea I guess there are good agents out there - I just never came across one.
I even offered an agent extra money in an effort for them to call me first when a house popped up that I'd be interested in....They guy got up from the table and said "I don't work that way" and left - He must have been a crook because he took what I said completely out of context like I was trying to bribe him into doing some wrong...which was the fartherst thing from my mind...I got the hint he did some shady stuff, so when a stranger suggested something like that he got defensive, I have reason for thinking he was shady, because for some reason he ran a background check on me. Huh I think the guy was a nervous crook and didn't trust anyone he worked with...
ah so much for now

[GLS]

Originally Posted by jimj

Having built my house and generalled it myself here are a few pieces of advice for you.
1. YOU WILL GO OVER BUDGET by at least 10%, everybody does so plan on 20% to be safe.

2. Once you have your plans set, and after the walls are being framed DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING no matter how nice it seems. Change orders will kill your budget. You can change most anything up to the point the walls are up without really hurting yourself but try to avoid the temptation. If you do change anything be sure and SIGN a change order, look at the real cost that's on the order BEFORE you sign. Don't ever go for "trust me".....

3. Don't do what most newbies do. They mess around with the construction plans while building like "ohh, that bathroom would really be nice if it were bigger" or "that closet would look better over there" or "this room really needs to be bigger" and then run out of money at the end and try to cheap out at the finish. Remember, the finish is what people see and they'll be able to tell if you cheap out. I can walk into a house and tell pretty much where the owner/builders ran out of money and started cheaping out.

4. Think about resale and build accordingly. Unless you're planing on living in the house until you die you will enventually want to sell it so that strange triangle office room that was very interesting to you probably won't impress a buyer. It's fine to designe a house that YOU want but try and keep an eye on what a future buyer would want as well. Take a geo dome as an example, I saw one built in whitefish, it was for sale so we went and looked at it. Needless to say it sat for years and finally sold real cheap and you couldn't have paid me to live in it.

5. Get a completion bond! There is no consumer protection here so if your builder or subs walk your only recourse is to sue which trust me takes years.

6. No matter how much you like the builder get references and CALL THEM. Ask if they'd use him again.

7. Go to the local courthouse and run the builders name to see if there's been any lawsuits filed agaisnt him or his business. There's no such thing as the BBB here so you have to do some homework yourself. Go to MT.Gov and make sure he's a registered contractor and be SURE to get proof of comp insurance on him and all the subs. In this state if you don't you can and will be held liable if someone gets hurt.

8.Visit the site daily just to see what's going on and see if it's on schedule. If the site is a pig pen then you can pretty much assume that's the kind of work they're going to do and if it's behind schedule find out why.
As an example, my house took 3 1/2 months to build which is about normal, my neighbors took 7 months. Turns out the builder had a couple of projects going at the same time so he didn't spend full time at any of them and his subs flaked in and out as well. Also, the builder installed the truss's and didn't realize they weren't right until my neighbor pointed it out to him and demanded they be ripped out and changed to meet the plans. So it pays to stay on top of things and understand your plans and keep tabs on how it's going.
Again, and I can't stress this enough, this is Montana, there's virtually NO consumer protection here so it's up to you to do as much as you can to protect yourself.
Good luck!!!!!!

The above is an excellent post because it focuses on the specifics of the building process and where people tend to get in trouble. It also absolutely reflects of some of my own experience (read mistakes I have made). Hopefully if you combine this with my post #8, you (Mickelburgs) will get a road-map of some of the potholes to avoid.

I still choose to build from scratch because my housing needs are not served by most available houses, I like to design, and the process is exciting. However, as most posters have pointed out, the process is also filled with financial and emotional danger and many a couple has crashed upon the rocks trying to build.

Finally, just for your amusement, google "StopLindalRipoffs" and read my article under "Bill Crist, Michael's Construction, Redding, CA". If things start to go bad on your project, you better be ready to lock and load.

Despite all the caveats, once you educate yourself on the risks, and are prepared for the work, if you're still excited, go for it and good luck.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Radek wrote:


No argument there. Anybody that does what 'you' want is good by definition. The problem is finding a good one. I don't anyone that has ever meet a realestate person that would say they weren't good, we all thing we're good.
When I was looking for a house, I can't tell you how many agents I worked with or talked to......I must say I didn't find a one of them very willing to work with me to find a house I wanted. In fast I found out that that was a really big turn off for adgents, as soon as said I was looking for a certain type of house in certain areas, they lost interest. I attribute that behavior to the fact that they saw me as not a quick sale, somethey weren't just going to shuffle into a house. And the facts bore that out in that the few agents I did work with would say..."oh let's go look at this one".....9 out of ten times it wasn't even in the area I was interested in. Sorry if I talked to 40 agents at open houses and the like trying to find a 'good' agent, I'd get alot of lip service about how they were going to help, but none never did.
I remember one lady in particular, very nice and all she was, she specialize in an area I was interested in. I mentioned for her that I want a house in her specialized area, and the house should be such and such size, quite street, etc...and that she didn't have to drive me around showing me houses, just call me up when a house fitting that description popped up, I'd drive by, if then we could go look at it, and that for a few hours she could make a sale, and that it might take a little longer to find what I want, but I didn't require her to give me much of her time, Now you would think agents would jump at a chance to make an easy buck - WRONG, what they want is 'a live one' - someone who needs a house 'now - someone who they show 10 houses and they buy !
Yea I guess there are good agents out there - I just never came across one.
I even offered an agent extra money in an effort for them to call me first when a house popped up that I'd be interested in....They guy got up from the table and said "I don't work that way" and left - He must have been a crook because he took what I said completely out of context like I was trying to bribe him into doing some wrong...which was the fartherst thing from my mind...I got the hint he did some shady stuff, so when a stranger suggested something like that he got defensive, I have reason for thinking he was shady, because for some reason he ran a background check on me. Huh I think the guy was a nervous crook and didn't trust anyone he worked with...
ah so much for now

I have to agree with what you say, it's soooo hard to find a good agent here or for that matter in any state at this point. Again I point to the RE boom that's attracted people looking for a quick easy buck! Take some classes and a test and voila! Your on the road to riches.... Don't worry about blowing off someone, there's a line of 'em looking to buy the Montana (add state name) dream.
Well, now that things have cooled some and will most likely cool (chill) more you'll see the fast buck guys start dropping like flies and hopefully this will leave the serious "good" agents to deal with.
Try selling a house now, everyone promises the moon,sun and stars! Heck we can sell it in 90 days!!! Well, what do you say now that it's been 6 months??? Most act like the market was a year or so ago where all you had to do was hint you're selling and you had buyers lined up. Now you have to actually WORK to sell a house, yes, actually spend some money on advertising, not just a sign in the ground and mls and you have to actually KNOW how to use the internet (oh my gosh you wouldn't believe how many don't) to advertise since that's where most start looking.
You'll also notice that we're starting to see a WHOLE lot of Canadians buying here as of late....
Sorry to hijack the thread, back to regular programming......

[Radek]

Originally Posted by jimj

I have to agree with what you say, it's soooo hard to find a good agent here or for that matter in any state at this point. Again I point to the RE boom that's attracted people looking for a quick easy buck! Take some classes and a test and voila! Your on the road to riches.... Don't worry about blowing off someone, there's a line of 'em looking to buy the Montana (add state name) dream.
Well, now that things have cooled some and will most likely cool (chill) more you'll see the fast buck guys start dropping like flies and hopefully this will leave the serious "good" agents to deal with.
Try selling a house now, everyone promises the moon,sun and stars! Heck we can sell it in 90 days!!! Well, what do you say now that it's been 6 months??? Most act like the market was a year or so ago where all you had to do was hint you're selling and you had buyers lined up. Now you have to actually WORK to sell a house, yes, actually spend some money on advertising, not just a sign in the ground and mls and you have to actually KNOW how to use the internet (oh my gosh you wouldn't believe how many don't) to advertise since that's where most start looking.
You'll also notice that we're starting to see a WHOLE lot of Canadians buying here as of late....
Sorry to hijack the thread, back to regular programming......

To continue with the hijacking, I spoke with the lead broker today at a real estate group (my father is considering buying property here now that the market has cooled) and she seemed down to earth and understood our timeline, but it was still clear that people in the 'browse and research' stage were really not quite accepted back into the Real Estate market.

I keep considering getting a real estate license, just so I can represent myself and reap that commission as the buying party.

[JoeJoeMan]

Decembergirl - you mentioned you worked in realestate....I wonder if you would, if you didn't mind, in this thread or starting a new one, would you tell us some inside stories of what goes on behind the scenes in realestate.

I once had a friend who had worked in car sales, one day he started telling me a whole rash of stories about what really went on at car dealers, what an eye opener. The story about 'sweet peas' - these are naive novice sales people the dealer pull in for one purpose only, the deal knows the sweet pea will sell cars to his family and friends and that after a month or so they get rid of the sweet pea, and then bring on more sweet peas.

I suspect some things go on in realestate, for one I think but can prove, that a agent that owns a piece of proberty will put it on the market with a completly inflated price, for the purpose of making the other properties in the area look cheap in comparision.
I also suspect that agents will also try to get low listing prices on properties of homes where the parents die leaving it to the kids who are off somewhere else...knowing the kids will just want to sell it not get involved and divide up the money amoungst the siblings and get on with their own lives...Of course our agent knows that other agents will want the list and give a higher listing price....but this doesn't prevent our agent form trying, because in some case they can pull it off and get the listing and at the low price....of course once they get the list the house immediatly sells to ......who else put someone the agent knows perhaps a friend, family member or another agent in the office.
The reason I site the two above examples is not because I have direct knowledge of it happening but because I've seen some things that strongly suggested that that is what indeed did happened.
So, decembergirl or anyone else that can give any examples, I think it would be very educational for the public.
And oh yes of course, we are not talking about everyone in realestate.

[Timberwolf232]

If that's true I propose opening season on Real Estate Agents!

[Radek]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

If that's true I propose opening season on Real Estate Agents!

Agreed. However, I hope its false.


My father worked in real estate, and he told me some of the stories. He also worked well before the huge housing boom, so maybe things changed since he decided he didn't want to do it anymore.

If you get listings, your job gets a lot easier. There is a strong push to steer potential buyers towards listings of other agents in the office (the office makes more money, etc). I believe that doing things like arbitrarily inflating the price of a house to show that other houses are 'cheaper' to sell them is a form of price fixing, and would be illegal. If it isn't illegal, then we need to take them out into a field, give them a 2 minute head start and start the hunt.

And I'm sure there are downright dishonest people around, but heres the thing for most people buying a house, if you're doing your homework and shopping around, then you'll see that there are 9 houses at ~$300k, and that 1 house for ~$500k, and that the one house is severly inflated, and not a good deal.

If there are 7 houses at ~$500k, and 3 at ~$300k, then those 3 become worth looking into.

If we're at 9 at ~$500k and 1 at ~$300k, then that 300k house is suspect and deserves a full home inspection.

Thats my thought on that tactic, granted not everyone will see that way and the agents have a lot more training on how to clinch the sale, than the people who are buying.