The Montanan's problem with outsiders moving in.. (Bozeman, Kalispell: credit card, house)

[MySerendipity]

Ive read these threds and was a little bothered by some of what I read. I am a native San Diegan looking to move somewhere where my family can escape the left wing agenda and be in an invironment that supports family and our faith (Chrisitan). I am southern California and I think a lot of us here are pretty conservative and good folks. Maybe you were thinking of LA when you mentioned Southern California. But i do want to coment on the money. We feel in many respects the same as those of you about bringing outside money and runining the housing market. The same thing happened here. Im 5 generations deep in this city and even the community that we live in. I can not afford to buy a home in the community I grew up in. We pay dearly to live here. I work nearly 60 hours a week and my husband puts in close to that. We have our little house 1400 sq.ft. we have sunshine, beaches, mountains, desert and city life, but we can't enjoy it. Most of us are looking for a better quaility of life and last I heard we were the United States. Im sorry that a few have ruined it for the rest of us. But what are we to do?

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by MySerendipity

Ive read these threds and was a little bothered by some of what I read. I am a native San Diegan looking to move somewhere where my family can escape the left wing agenda and be in an invironment that supports family and our faith (Chrisitan). I am southern California and I think a lot of us here are pretty conservative and good folks. Maybe you were thinking of LA when you mentioned Southern California. But i do want to coment on the money. We feel in many respects the same as those of you about bringing outside money and runining the housing market. The same thing happened here. Im 5 generations deep in this city and even the community that we live in. I can not afford to buy a home in the community I grew up in. We pay dearly to live here. I work nearly 60 hours a week and my husband puts in close to that. We have our little house 1400 sq.ft. we have sunshine, beaches, mountains, desert and city life, but we can't enjoy it. Most of us are looking for a better quaility of life and last I heard we were the United States. Im sorry that a few have ruined it for the rest of us. But what are we to do?

It is a dilemma, and I really appreciate your comment because you understand the problem as you have seen it where you live. People from California do get the brunt of the "angst", simply because if you go to places like Bozeman or Kalispell you will really find more people that have moved here from CA in the last 10 years than from anywhere else. I grew up part time in CO and part time in MT and CO got hit first. I would have planted my roots in CO, but like you I couldn't afford to live in my own hometown. (That and I fell in love with a Montana Gal after I got out of the service..)

Recently I took a trip with a friend of mine who was showing me his old stomping grounds in NW MT, and his niece's family owned a little lakeside marina, but they couldn't afford to keep it due to all the inflation and sold it to some folks that seemed nice (from CA) and when she went and asked them about letting her get married on the land she grew up on, the new owners told her that she would have to pay $40K!! and her family BUILT the place. If you or I were the new owners we would have let her have her day out of grattitude, but it's these types of people that aggravate a lot of us.

There is the other side though. Lots of people who live here, and even some that post on here are Montanans that happen to be born in CA. They are not Californians as defined by the locals. Some of my good friends have come from CA, but they are NOT the ones messing things up. Unfortunately there are a lot that do. (They come from other places also, but it seems the overwhelming majority are from CA.)

As for the money part.. Its a tough question.

One thing a person moving in might do is refuse to pay the inflated prices and help get it down to a more reasonable level. Most people in Montana make 60K or less, (mostly way less) so how does a person making that kind of wage buy a $200K+ house? (In some cases much more than that.) If more people didn't see that as "cheap" and haggle more and have the patience to say NO and walk out of the real estate office things could be more affordable.

One side of me sees the whole thing as unfair, because just because out-pricing happened where a person lives, what gives them the right to do that to other people who have lived in a place all of their life? (Golden rule anyone?)

The other side of me tries to look at it from the other perspective and understand that things were expensive and tough and it must be a relief to someone who is used to things being priced through the roof and crowded. It's hard to blame them until they start demanding the same services they had where they moved from causing taxes to go up etc...

It's a tough thing for a lot of people... What do you folks think?

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

It is a dilemma, and I really appreciate your comment because you understand the problem as you have seen it where you live. People from California do get the brunt of the "angst", simply because if you go to places like Bozeman or Kalispell you will really find more people that have moved here from CA in the last 10 years than from anywhere else. I grew up part time in CO and part time in MT and CO got hit first. I would have planted my roots in CO, but like you I couldn't afford to live in my own hometown. (That and I fell in love with a Montana Gal after I got out of the service..)

Recently I took a trip with a friend of mine who was showing me his old stomping grounds in NW MT, and his niece's family owned a little lakeside marina, but they couldn't afford to keep it due to all the inflation and sold it to some folks that seemed nice (from CA) and when she went and asked them about letting her get married on the land she grew up on, the new owners told her that she would have to pay $40K!! and her family BUILT the place. If you or I were the new owners we would have let her have her day out of grattitude, but it's these types of people that aggravate a lot of us.

There is the other side though. Lots of people who live here, and even some that post on here are Montanans that happen to be born in CA. They are not Californians as defined by the locals. Some of my good friends have come from CA, but they are NOT the ones messing things up. Unfortunately there are a lot that do. (They come from other places also, but it seems the overwhelming majority are from CA.)

As for the money part.. Its a tough question.

One thing a person moving in might do is refuse to pay the inflated prices and help get it down to a more reasonable level. Most people in Montana make 60K or less, (mostly way less) so how does a person making that kind of wage buy a $200K+ house? (In some cases much more than that.) If more people didn't see that as "cheap" and haggle more and have the patience to say NO and walk out of the real estate office things could be more affordable.

One side of me sees the whole thing as unfair, because just because out-pricing happened where a person lives, what gives them the right to do that to other people who have lived in a place all of their life? (Golden rule anyone?)

The other side of me tries to look at it from the other perspective and understand that things were expensive and tough and it must be a relief to someone who is used to things being priced through the roof and crowded. It's hard to blame them until they start demanding the same services they had where they moved from causing taxes to go up etc...

It's a tough thing for a lot of people... What do you folks think?

First.. stuff like you guys are posting is happening all over the country. I'm leaving LI for PA to escape high cost of living. BTW. I stop by MT boards becaues my mom is in MT now. .. she was born there, married my dad (an airmen then from NY) moved toNY with him, had us and when my dad died went back to MT.. so I do pop in on this board from time to time..

But anyway.. back to the subject. You have to understand that "cheap" or "expensive" is all relative. Someone from CA may not re alize that the price they are paying for the home there inMT is 'expensive" and is pricing locals out of the market. PRobably CA people are the biggest suckers because they are probably paying above top dollar for homes ( or were during the RE boom years) thinking they were getting a great deal. If CA is anything like NY then ehre we pay $400KK for an 1100 square foot starter home on an 80 x 100 lot..with no basement and pay $7000 a year in taxes.. so when they go to CA and find a $200K home probably twice the size of the one they owned in CA on much bigger property.. .. well you can see where i'm going with this.

Hey.. as for me.. I found a rental in PA that is large *(an old farmhouse, mind you) that is 4 bed 2 1/2 baths and cost the same as my first apt on LI 6 years ago that was a small 1 bedroom with a ktichenette in the attic of someones cape house!!! Maybe the locals think it is expensive.. but for me it was a STEAL!

see.. it's all relative to your own personal experience...

[MySerendipity]

Timberwolf, Thank you! I was really upset by some of what I read. I know many of us are attracted to States such as Montana, Idaho etc because people that feel the same way as many of us conservatives live in these places. So when we find out that we are so unwelcome it is very frustrating. I see your point about the costs. Something I will take in consideration when we do move. I think your right about us seeing just what a deal it may look like in comparison and not realizing that we are over paying. The last thing we want to do is ruin an area for the locals. But I will say that I loved my home state and city, Im sad at how it has been ruined and taken away from us. I would never dream of doing the same to others. We just want a clean life and to enjoy our family and to worship our God freely and to speak our minds without being hated. I think that so many Californians think about money so much because we are charged for everything, we often joke about having the sunshine tax, it's too bad that those people could't appriciate the previous owner wanting to have a special moment on that property. What an honor that would have been to have allowed such a blessed time. That is the only thing I can think of. Im sorry to hear of that. Well, we shall all have to keep these things in mind.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by MySerendipity

Timberwolf, Thank you! I was really upset by some of what I read. I know many of us are attracted to States such as Montana, Idaho etc because people that feel the same way as many of us conservatives live in these places. So when we find out that we are so unwelcome it is very frustrating.

I think most people in these areas are pretty open to others.

Nobody likes it when people move in and then get right on to the "you don't know what you are doing, back where I'm from this is how we do it" stuff.

If you work hard, can make and keep an agreement with a handshake and no lawyers, and believe in self-reliance welcome!!

If you call the police every time a deer or coyote sneaks into your yard it might be the wrong place for ya.

Originally Posted by MySerendipity

I see your point about the costs. Something I will take in consideration when we do move. I think your right about us seeing just what a deal it may look like in comparison and not realizing that we are over paying. The last thing we want to do is ruin an area for the locals. But I will say that I loved my home state and city, Im sad at how it has been ruined and taken away from us. I would never dream of doing the same to others.

Sorry about your stomping grounds. It's a bummer when that happens to good people.

Thanks for the nice comments and good luck in your search!

[Joe Doer]

"The problem goes back to the $$. People here work just as hard or harder then people from CA, but yet the Californians get paid more for the same jobs and have the financial leverage to buy up all the land. "

I grew up in Montana and finally had to go somewhere else to make a living. I was working in Missoula as a sales rep for a local company. I could makes ends meet but never really get ahead. When I say get ahead, I mean being able to live on more than social security at retirement. I moved to California doing the same exact job, selling the same products (at a lower price), and making twice as much money. Go figure. Maybe the reason for lower wages should be blamed on employers in Montana instead of people "magically" making more money in California for doing nothing.

Yes. There are plenty of idiots in California. With such a large population the odds are good for that.

I think if you look more closely at the situation of Californians going to Montana and Oregon and messing things up, you will find these people are not "native" Californians. I know people you speak of. They moved to CA from Florida, New York, Illinois, Carolinas, etc. They came in, made their fortune, and are now "retiring" to MT. They do not really retire. They are not content retiring on $10,000,000. They need $20,000,000 for whatever reason. They look around and see potential in places like Montana, Idaho, and Oregon. That potential will only be realized if they can change a few things. That is when the problems start!!!

My wife and I will go back and retire in Montana. We have already bought an existing home in West Yellowstone. She was raised in Missoula and I in Glasgow. Most of our families still live in Dillon, Bozeman, Belgrade, Billings, Fort Peck and Glasgow. We do not drive a Hummer and are not fans of Starbucks(Seattle get the blame for Starbucks...not CA). When we retire will go fishing and be quiet members of the community. Our fishing will be on public property and our dogs will be on leashes except when there are finding birds for us.

[Joe Doer]

"But anyway.. back to the subject. You have to understand that "cheap" or "expensive" is all relative. Someone from CA may not realize that the price they are paying for the home there in MT is 'expensive" and is pricing locals out of the market. Probably CA people are the biggest suckers because they are probably paying above top dollar for homes ( or were during the RE boom years) thinking they were getting a great deal. "

Maybe the suckers from California are not the problem, but the local appraiser who says the house really IS worth that much.

[MySerendipity]

Thanks Joe,

I agree with you on most of your thred. It is refreshing to hear someone put the blame on what many of us natives have thought. Its the outsiders! I think that is a big part of the problem and I do think that much of this problem is relative to ones personal experiences. I wonder how long ago it was that you worked out here. Because right now many of the jobs are well underpaid when you take into consideration the cost of housing, fuel, food etc. I realized with my research that for expample in Idaho (where I first started looking) that my husband could earn just a couple thousand dollars less a year and i figured that for my job that I would earn about the same and yet housing, fuel, food etc is considerably less. A year or so ago the average dual income in San Diego was just under 60K and yet the median house was around 500k. Figure that one out. Let me tell you that isn't much of a house, usually very small, old and not always in a great area. I think it is the executives and corporate people that move in here from other areas that have a ton of money that have caused some problems, but also the weather is near perfect and where there is demand and need of housing, costs rise. But I don't think most of us get paid for doing nothing. Many of us work, work and work and we are slaves to this state and city. I hope that people in other states will be open to us, I can speak for my family and say that we do want to fit in anwhere we go and we don't want to bring harm, if anything part of having better quailty of life, is having the ability to help others. Giving is always better than recieving.
Thank You all so much for your input. It is valuable insight to also understand each of our views.
Going out on the edge, is there any part of this great state that you would recomend people like us go? We are a Republican, Christian and married couple with one child. We are both fiscally and socialy conservative. Hopefully not liberal by your standards. My husband teaches high School Math and Specializes in Special Education. I own a salon and do nails.

[jarsmom]

my serendipty

It is true San Diego is not MT. It sounds like you would fit in well though. AS far as I was ever concerned I never cared where a person was from,
It was always about attitude, I think any time any one moves to a new
area it isn' wise to compare the areas making the old place seem better.
That is one major thing that makes the natives bristle. Wanna hear
a good example????? I know you would...... Way back in the winter of
96-97 I think, we had a doozy of a winter, 75 year record snow fall. A bunch of people had moved into the many lakes area and built some private roads for acess, well guess what, the county dosent plow private
roads. Pobrecitos. There was a lot of hollering that went on before
the snow finally melted. Its that kind of stuff that annoys the TAR out
of a local.

Lots of good old fashioned values in MT. However, I must warn you that
western MT is much more progressive than eastern, and some of the "liberal" idelology may be more prevalent then you anticipate.

Now, as far as the locals are concerned, some of them need to be horse
whipped. I can relay my own expierence. I am a native, after i got out
of school I worked in Ga for a while, and moved back to MT to help my
dying mother. I had social problems with some of my co workers ,then
and 20 years later they were bitching to people whom were mutual
acquantiances about things I did. So tell me who was the one with the
problem. But thats Kalispell for you, I love it and some times I wish I
were back there even with the crabby coworkers with the long memories,
so its not always the trans plants it is the natives and I are one. I am so
sorry, I dont believe that bad behavior is accectable on anybody's behalf.
I m not trying to rant but it is what I have noticed over the years

[MySerendipity]

Thank your bringing some humor and reality. I know we are used to all the services that are provided here, we do pay for them and it is incredible how many people think they are free or should just be available.say if you didn't vote, you have no right to fuss over the outcome if it isn't your wish and if you didn't pay for it, it wasn't yours to start with. I would rather earn my own way in this world and be responsible for my sucess or failure. I guess that is more of a capitoilsts approach. If they wanted those houses out in the boonies then they need to be aware that they are on their own. I totally agree with you on that. I must say that I think we are probably more metro than that. Would like to be near a city, not in it though. Shoot, I don't even know how to drive in the snow! I would have a lot to learn but it would sure be fun to do it.