The Montanan's problem with outsiders moving in.. (Missoula, Belgrade: felons, buyers)

[Vulcan500]

Just returned to Bozeman from a quick trip to Choteau/Augusta/Fairfield. Really nice country up there but too far from "civilization" for me. I like the convenience of Bozeman & Billings. This is subject to change with population (and $) increases, but I'm in sync with "myserendipity" on enjoying a more 'metro' area.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by rickers

Sounds like that dude was a brain fried paranoid meth head. Was all of his teeth rotted out ? ! One thing to remember about people eaves dropping via a scanner on phone conversations is that cordless phones may have a range of about a block or two where as cell phones have to have a transmission range to reach a cell tower and that could be several miles.
Reziac is getting rep points from me for the point about not using a radio phone of any type for buying products or paying bills and saying your account information over the phone . Use a hard line phone for those transactions and for the juicy conversations !

I think he might have been a combination of that and schizo like Rez said. I was tempted to suggest a tin foil hat, but decided not to be mean as the dude had some kind of mental problems for sure.

I'm with you guys on the radio phones... I deal with a lot of RF equipment in my trade, and when it comes to finding info or listening in where there is a will and some $$ there is always a way.

I don't pay bills over the phone unless its a direct modem connection to my bank, (haven't even done that in years..)but it seems that more and more banks are abandoning that option for E-banking over the internet.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by Vulcan500

Just returned to Bozeman from a quick trip to Choteau/Augusta/Fairfield. Really nice country up there but too far from "civilization" for me. I like the convenience of Bozeman & Billings. This is subject to change with population (and $) increases, but I'm in sync with "myserendipity" on enjoying a more 'metro' area.

I liked Bozeman better 10-20 years ago. Traffic was better, no pushy people on every corner, you could go up Hyalite, or fish on the Gallatin without seeing 500 other people. *sigh* ahh the good 'ole days.

[chrismford]

I have lived here most of my life and left to go to College in Wisconsin. To many people come here and don't expect the change and then want the things they had. Most of Montana is beautiful and great to visit but moving here isn't the same. Come and visit, just don't stay! If you come to escape your problems then you'll just bring them with. Fix what is wrong with YOUR area instead of running!

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

I was tempted to suggest a tin foil hat,

Tinfoil hats are great. They'll protect you from all sorts of stuff, real or imagined. But they have to be properly fitted. Schizos happen because their tinfoil hats are too tight.

[GLS]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Tinfoil hats are great. They'll protect you from all sorts of stuff, real or imagined. But they have to be properly fitted. Schizos happen because their tinfoil hats are too tight.

Based upon the intelligence of my in-laws, tin foil hats are inappropriate in lightning storms.

[hengruh]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

The "Californian" problem goes way back in the rocky mountain west. It's synonymous with people taking up their own causes and views in an area that may not, nor want to share those said views. MOST, but not all of this frustration is based on the "California" attitude.

Unfortunately, it's a true stigma, not about judgment of people individually, but of a collective attitude that IS a part of a lot of the mindset of a lot of people mostly from California. (and other larger areas)

I understand that every person is different, and a lot of Californians are really nice people. I just pick on CA folks more because the majority of the greedy real estate types come from out there... Actually I have quite a few friends from CA, and we agree about the mindset thing... There are quite a few nice Californians on this forum too.. but again most agree about the mindset in the area and want to move! I don't blame them!

What I have a hard time with is the attitude of people that have this desperate drive to move here, and live here for a few months and then express a need for "change". GO HOME!

The beauty of Montana has been there for thousands of years and it's really frustrating to live here, and hear from and see people that want (and aggressively attempt) to change the way things are done here.
We're not Al Quada.. We don't make women wear hoods, nor do we chop the hands off of thieves or cut the tongues out of the mouths of liars.. (although if you steal from or lie to the wrong person you might get an old fashioned western ass whoopin'..)

Addressing the housing issue... People from areas that have inflated home values that take advantage of the rural economy by buying property to resell for profit, or as a tax write off as a small business (We call these California ranches) really do more hurt than benefit for the state as a whole. (You'll hear politicians lie about this all the time and say it's good, but come visit some ranch/farming families and see how it effects them.)

I don't blame the honest immigrants , but we do get a lot of the ones who knew what they were doing when they "back doored" the area they moved from. Now they try and do it here. (by "back dooring" I mean the ones who bought land and homes just to "flip" the property for a profit based on the current economy.) This is how they make their money.., is it an honest trade??
NO! It's not honest to bleed other people for money, even if it's in a roundabout way. PERIOD.
If YOU WANT TO EARN A LIVING HERE GET A JOB THAT HELPS the economy, instead of one that bleeds it.

Another crazy thing is these types of people move in and as the property values and taxes go up take it in the shorts as well, because they pay the inflated prices.. if they were smart they could have SAVED that extra money and bought low and had some security. All it takes is the patience and forethought not to pay too much, along with the willingness to walk out of the broker's office because the asking price is too much.

They think that because they moved to a lower value market that the price was good.. Not if your job won't support the difference... and that is exactly what a lot of newbies are starting to find out. Unfortunately it's effecting the honest ones that simply wanted to better their lives more than the greedy ones that pay attention to the market and know how to work it to their advantage.. (Life is not a poker game folks, as fun as it sounds the house always wins in the long run. )

Some of the new folks think that they figured out how to make "easy" money by "flipping" properties in a slower market based on what they learned in the big city or town they came from, then moved to Montana with the attitude of "who's to blame me for bettering myself?" right?? "I'll just pass my loss on to the next buyer."

WRONG What they do is jack up the prices for the majority of the honest people (and themselves) that are pursuing an honest reason to move out here.... An escape from crime, drugs, gangs, greed etc...

How bad does it suck for people that scrimped and saved to be able to move and then come to face a grossly inflated housing market that they can't afford??..
Especially on Montana salaries? We are in the running for the LOWEST pay and LONGEST HOURS WORKED in the NATION.

And 75% of the newbies don't consider at all the impact they have on the people that have lived here for all or most of their lives. That sucks.

I can't think of a single friend or coworker out here that would turn a blind eye to someone new that was looking for friendship, advice, or opportunity regardless of where they came from, but at the same time almost everyone I know has had at least 2-3 bad run-ins with people trying to gather info from them, or to try to get them to sell out land that has been in their family for generations so they can divide it up and sell it for a profit. Some of them now taxed out and living in apartments instead of on their families ranches.. Makes ya sick.

I'm curious to see how others see this.

Comments??

I say AMEN brother!

[hengruh]

I think a totally different way to look at it is to stop focusing on whether you are a native Montanan or from somewhere else, the parts you can't help (or take credit for!) and focus on how you behave.

If you are a greedy money-grubber who has an arrogant, me-first attitude, then you aren't wanted. Not just out-of-staters, but people from here too. People in Helena complain about outsiders, same as other places in Montana, but WE sold to them, some from sheer greed, and so WE have to take some of the blame. The Chamber of Commerce and the Real Estate folks and developers are selling our homes out for nothing more than greed (greed=wanting more than you need...an Escalade when a old pickup will do, a $1.5 million McMansion for two people to live in).

If there is a nice family, trying to escape the death zones of the cities in NY or CA, who come up here, try to go with the flow, work, be pleasant and friendly, SLOW down a lot, live like humble human beings, I welcome them a lot more than some five-generation Montanan raping and pillaging and getting Federal welfare in the form of bascially-free mining, grazing and timber fees, and profiting from behind the scenes corruption in local politics and business schemes. BUt the wheeler-dealer types from CA or NY should stay away, we have enough local pimps selling out our land and way of life.

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

It is a dilemma, and I really appreciate your comment because you understand the problem as you have seen it where you live. People from California do get the brunt of the "angst", simply because if you go to places like Bozeman or Kalispell you will really find more people that have moved here from CA in the last 10 years than from anywhere else. I grew up part time in CO and part time in MT and CO got hit first. I would have planted my roots in CO, but like you I couldn't afford to live in my own hometown. (That and I fell in love with a Montana Gal after I got out of the service..)

Recently I took a trip with a friend of mine who was showing me his old stomping grounds in NW MT, and his niece's family owned a little lakeside marina, but they couldn't afford to keep it due to all the inflation and sold it to some folks that seemed nice (from CA) and when she went and asked them about letting her get married on the land she grew up on, the new owners told her that she would have to pay $40K!! and her family BUILT the place. If you or I were the new owners we would have let her have her day out of grattitude, but it's these types of people that aggravate a lot of us.

There is the other side though. Lots of people who live here, and even some that post on here are Montanans that happen to be born in CA. They are not Californians as defined by the locals. Some of my good friends have come from CA, but they are NOT the ones messing things up. Unfortunately there are a lot that do. (They come from other places also, but it seems the overwhelming majority are from CA.)

As for the money part.. Its a tough question.

One thing a person moving in might do is refuse to pay the inflated prices and help get it down to a more reasonable level. Most people in Montana make 60K or less, (mostly way less) so how does a person making that kind of wage buy a $200K+ house? (In some cases much more than that.) If more people didn't see that as "cheap" and haggle more and have the patience to say NO and walk out of the real estate office things could be more affordable.

One side of me sees the whole thing as unfair, because just because out-pricing happened where a person lives, what gives them the right to do that to other people who have lived in a place all of their life? (Golden rule anyone?)

The other side of me tries to look at it from the other perspective and understand that things were expensive and tough and it must be a relief to someone who is used to things being priced through the roof and crowded. It's hard to blame them until they start demanding the same services they had where they moved from causing taxes to go up etc...

It's a tough thing for a lot of people... What do you folks think?

[hengruh]

Actually it is very much part of traditional Montanan ways of life not to intrude on your neighbor's choices in life. Not our business.

The problems come when your neighbor's cows knock down your fence and start eating your pasture or wheat, or when the mine starts leaking and kills the trout downstream you fish and your family eats. Then it becomes your business, sure enough.

So, yeah, when outsiders come in and their choices start impacting your own life, then it DOES matter what outsiders do.

Originally Posted by j760

Oh my gosh, these threads get so old. And they aren't just in the Montana section, they are everywhere. They are a bit entertaining though so it's hard to resist opening and reading them.

I think some of you just have to much time on your hands. Instead of worrying about other people why not just be concerned with yourself and live the best life you can live, and take care of your family the best way you can. What does it matter what outsiders do? Your going to have to get used to it because people move from all over to other places in this country, this is nothing new and it's not going to stop. So my best advice is to get used to it and just take care of yourself, and stop trying to change every outsider to think and live their life just like you.

Nobody is going to check in with the OP first before they make decisions to move somewhere, or on how they decide to act and live. Nor should they.

[hengruh]

Originally Posted by tiyoo

Are you people kidding me? I live in Austin, Tx...I moved to Glendive, Montana for 1 year and almost went crazy...why people would want to move to Montana in the first place I have no clue. There is nothing in Eastern Montana...western montana is different...but from my understanding half of montana is dying and half is barely growing. I went to Bozeman and other places...if you guys think you have bad with the Californians then you have obviously never been to Texas...Texas' population grows at a much faster rate than Montana so please stop bitching...Montana is a beautiful state but I would never want to live there...the only people who live there are Unibombers and people who dont want to be found...

YAY!! Spread the word