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Old 08-18-2008, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Northwestern Illinois
127 posts, read 308,492 times
Reputation: 36

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Remember that "sodomy" usually means nothing more than "ordinary gay sex". It's no longer a crime in most states.

Anyone up in arms about "molestation" needs to read about the McMartin Preschool case, a good example of how out of hand accusations can get, and how easy it can be to get a conviction based on faulty evidence:

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Illinois there is a "forceable sodomy law". Of course, this could be covered under the "rape" definition, and in the list that was quoted, would probably not be included. It's possible that someone could still be arrested for sodomy, but it would be included in the rape charge, not as a reference to "ordinary gay sex".

Last edited by Stropes; 08-18-2008 at 05:48 PM.. Reason: statement not complete
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:13 AM
 
Location: West Yellowstone, MT
239 posts, read 608,861 times
Reputation: 127
Default Definition of Sodomy:

sodomy n. anal copulation by a man inserting his penis in the anus either of another man or a woman. If accomplished by force, without consent, or with someone incapable of consent, sodomy is a felony in all states in the same way that rape is. Homosexual (male to male) sodomy between consenting adults has also been found a felony, but increasingly is either decriminalized or seldom prosecuted. Sodomy with a consenting adult female is virtually never prosecuted even in those states in which it remains on the books as a criminal offense. However, there have been a few cases, including one in Indiana, in which a now-estranged wife insisted that a husband be charged with sodomy for sexual acts while they were living together. Traditionally sodomy was called "the crime against nature." Sodomy does not include oral copulation or sexual acts with animals (bestiality). (See: rape, bestiality)
Copyright 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:23 AM
 
1 posts, read 3,472 times
Reputation: 12
Unhappy Montanas plight is Califs as well

Hi there,
I just read the posts from the last couple of years of folks from Montana hating and blaming Californians for the housing situation.
We just came back from spending the summer in Montana & Idaho, looking for a possible area to relocate. We currently live in florida where we moved 8 years ago to escape exactly what you have been referring to: Housing sent sky high by outsiders coming in and buying up properties, flipping them etc...
Am i speaking of Montana? No, I am speaking of California. The dreaded S.CAL that everyone is blaming their real estate housing problems on.
I grew up in San Diego in a blue collar family, and moved farther and farther east until i was in the mountains, trying to escape the high cost of living and housing.
Well guess what, we were driven out of our own state with no hope of ever being able to buy property in our own area. We moved to Florida where my husband is from, and guess what, it happens here as well. They call them snowbirds here.
I grew up spending time in Colorado, sadly they hate Californians as well and its way to expensive for us to even consider that area.
We have researched Montana and love the lifestyle, the area, the climate, but now after reading all the threads are in fear of pursuing our dream of leaving Florida and ending up back in the mtns.
I am looking at starting my own business and working hard, but am in fear that My husband and daughter will not be able to find work due to the rotten attitudes about "Outsiders"
I guess what bothers me is that everyone lumps all californians as rich people who screw everyone else over to make a buck. Guess what there are some of us who are just like you, who barely have two nickels to rub togehter and who want to raise our families in a nice safe area and live in a community that we can contribute to and grow with. We dont want to change anything, but by the same token dont want to live wearing a "scarlet letter" due to be labled an evil outsider.
Question, werent you all outsiders at some point???? As far as I know other than native americans everyone in the state imigrated to Montana somewhere along the line, and Im sure created changes as they came.
You cannot stop progress, nor deny others the basic needs to survive.
Cant we all just get along??? Are there no people left who just accept differences and know thats what makes this world a grand place to live in?
Frustrated and ready to become a hermit telling those judgemental few to take a leap!
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Sheridan, Wy
1,466 posts, read 3,585,500 times
Reputation: 636
mtnrainbows,
Every one has their own opinion. And most people with common sense and understanding knows that not "everyone" is rich or part of that CA mentality.
I say take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt. I think the underlying problem is people move into the state and then want to "Modernize" it or change it to something closer than what they left behind. They want Montana to adopt laws of Florida, CA, as well as more big box stores and conveniences. Or pave dirt roads and what they think "improve" roads and country lifestyle, when it doesn't need to be changed, it is fine how it is.

The locals in Montana are trying to preserve their state. Change is inevitable in some ways. What makes Montana such a wonderful place people want to come and change after they move here? But what they don't realize is that is what drew them in the first place... It is like a contradiction ya know, and that is what frustrates many people.

I live in Wyoming and I know similar problems of resentment happen here also...

I say pursue your dream, don't let people's opinion make a decision for you. If you move in and assimilate and just be yourself and try to adopt the culture rather than change it I think you would have no problem in Montana.

Hopes that helps give better understanding of the frustration. Best of luck to you and feel free to ask us any questions that we can help you out with...
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Old 08-19-2008, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, WY
1 posts, read 3,460 times
Reputation: 10
Default We Can't Afford Wyoming

So we are looking at Glasgow. For the $14,000 we have in savings we can actually own a house instead of making payments.

Would we not be welcome?

My husband was in prison for 8 years. I was homeless for 3.5 of those years in Denver and Colo Spgs, CO. He can't get a job here because of his background. He's got a degree in Audio Engineering (think professional sound systems)

Would we not be welcome?

We homeschool. I raise dairy goats and love to garden (which I am told I will have to relearn that far north). If we don't hunt, we can't afford to put meat on the table.

People from out-of-state have made living in my hometown so expensive that we are making $985 payments on a tiny two-bedroom trailer home that is falling apart. I can get a three-bedroom condo in Glasgow for cash.

We just want to be able to raise my family and be a member of a community. Not a problem to be gotten rid of as we are currently seen.

Would we not be welcome in MT?
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:56 PM
 
5 posts, read 12,979 times
Reputation: 26
Kristynwy hit the nail on the head - very well said.

After all's said & done, we're all Americans (and if you're not, at least be here legally or you really aren't welcome=).

All Americans are equal (no matter where you're from or what your background is - checkered or otherwise) and we each have every right to move from one corner of the nation to the other and should be able to without fear of backlash or blacklisting (I myself have lived from coast to coast at one time or another, including Cali, & even spent considerable time abroad).

But when in Rome ring a bell anyone...? come on.

There's been an over-abundance of recent transplants up-heaving the entire region and really putting 'locals' in a world of economic pain.

Uniquely in MT (at least from what I've seen in my travels)... many recent transplants are very often absentee land-baron wannabes (shrewdly avoiding local taxes/income tax, etc), in addition to many others living here as their primary residence but refusing to support the local community, ma & pop institutions, etc and instead support ONLY big box conglomerates that recent followed them in.

Like so many places, Zoning laws are exploited + abused with the sole "plan" to screw locals out of their homes & rural/real way of life. Like many other parts of the nation again, the region has been treated like a 3rd world state, where recent transplants swoop in, exploit it & the locals (sucking the life out of the place) just so they may selfishly live like kings where they couldn't do so, or couldn't maintain at least, "back home".

Locals cant afford the sudden & rapidly exploding cost of living that went ballistic in the last 5 yrs or so, steadily climbing higher by the day.

And when I say ballistic, that's no exaggeration: for example, with $60k homes (priced appropriately for an area where the pre-invasion avg annual income was on the order of $25-35k/yr) seeing their prices rocket up over night to over $500k++, taking the price of everything else up into orbit along with them.

This in an region like so many in the nation where wages stayed stagnant for most (except for many -granted not all- recent transplants) & many of the best paying jobs have evaporated thanks to tree-huggers (including many new comers who claim to "love" & "admire" nation and wildlife but want bears, moose, elk, racoons, etc in their yards shot) with nothing remotely close to take the place of good paying timber/mining jobs (not to mention illegals driving down all other blue collar jobs they can take even in MT).

Add to all this a dramatic increase in population overnight, many bringing their big city/urban mindsets, violent crime rates & similar problems with them. There has indeed been an "invasion"/ migration of historic proportions of people coming here all at once in a very short period of time. By itself that could've been fine & maybe even great (even such a dramatic transformation in such a short time), but how many of our new neighbors chose & continue to choose to conduct themselves turned this into a very different kind of story - not a happy ending for anyone.

All this drives the working poor into poverty, surrounded with crime & fear, squeezes out any 'middle class' and ultimately forces all but the very rich to have to choose between a devolving std of living & ultimately perhaps even outright poverty vs. abandoning their lives and being driven out where the devil may care what becomes of them or where they go. And we're talking Montana...

Hence many locals like myself with the ability to, being forced to spend months at a time away from our families, having to globe-trot to find work to be able to afford to live back home.

This is NOT progressive, not sustainable or a shining example of the American way and this is certainly not the American dream (instead looking more like a nightmare). For many here our roots run deep with many of our ancestors laid to rest at the feet of, or in our mountains & fleeing or surrendering our home & way of life to the worst element (rich & poor alike) of America or abroad is not an option.

All change is not good and what a speculator/profiteer may call "the American way" or "progressive" is in fact anything but; instead what we're witnessing is the few turning the clock back a 100+yrs on the many, back to scorched-earth economics (Charles Dickens-like at times) and spreading urban blight from sea to once shining sea.

And to what end?

It's time we the people say enough - the real American way, our principles and the lifestyles we've always cherished here in MT are what is good and worth standing up for to help preserve so we're not the last ones to enjoy what was once good about this place. That kind of positive change has to start at home - for us, that's right here in Montana.

Some of us would like to share this place & what made it great with our own children & our children's children, as well as with any/all newcomers who come for the right reasons (like freedom/liberty, open spaces, rural living & the Montana way of life). After all, if you don't have a love or at least an appreciation for the place you decide you just have to move to... then you should ask yourself again just why you want to move there.

To change it, to destroy what came before? There's something fundamentally wrong with that - its a disease of the mind & heart... and that doesn't mean the rest of us should have to suffer because of your selfish me-first whims.



Oh & to to nip the "you're all immigrants" or "what about the Indians" straw-man fallacy: unlike a couple of neighboring states, our state hasn't been in a sustained struggle (hot or economic) with our Indian neighbors & fellow residents. Instead there's a strong history west of the rockies, at least in our area, of mutual trading and inter-marriage. The missionaries were not only welcomed, but were even actively petitioned to come here & the pioneers that followed were treated fairly & welcomed in our area at least. Furthermore, I for one am not an immigrant - I was born here, therefore I AM a native - this is my home. Nevermind the Indian blood mixed in my veins (not that that should ever matter in America, but those kind of ignorant comments usually from big city types more often than not just makes me sick... If you were born here, to legal American citizens, you ARE an American & not an immigrant no matter what state you're from!)
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Old 08-20-2008, 05:00 PM
GLS
 
1,985 posts, read 4,837,000 times
Reputation: 2408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristynwy View Post
mtnrainbows,

.... I think the underlying problem is people move into the state and then want to "Modernize" it or change it to something closer than what they left behind.....
Too bad this isn't universally true. We could sure use a bunch of people moving into California from Montana, and trying to make it more like Montana.
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,570,254 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS View Post
Too bad this isn't universally true. We could sure use a bunch of people moving into California from Montana, and trying to make it more like Montana.
I been tryin' to get y'all to help me start that feedlot in Beverly Hills... hey, it worked for certain hillbillies a couple generations back, why not now!
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,570,254 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyrambler View Post
So we are looking at Glasgow. For the $14,000 we have in savings we can actually own a house instead of making payments.

Would we not be welcome?

My husband was in prison for 8 years. I was homeless for 3.5 of those years in Denver and Colo Spgs, CO. He can't get a job here because of his background. He's got a degree in Audio Engineering (think professional sound systems)
My own feeling (aside from not really believing in the prison system anyway) is that once you've paid your debt you should get a fresh start, and after that how it goes is up to you. I don't believe in offender lists and the like, they're too often used for witch hunts, and how can a person restart their life if everyone is always reminding 'em of how they screwed up?? Everyone screws up, some of us more dramatically than others; it's what you learn from it that matters.

I'm not sure what sort of job an audio engineer could get in Glasgow -- doesn't strike me as something in demand there. (I remember when a single First Class radio engineer handled every radio station in Bozeman!) But that's a first cousin to electrical engineer, and to electrical work on cars, and that might be something to consider (good auto electronics techs are a rare thing). Maybe network tech or electrician's apprentice or small appliance repair (TVs and such), just to get a foot in the door where at least some of his degree would be useful. You're always more desirable as an employee if you already have SOME sort of job than if you have NO job (ie. being employed, even in grunt work, demonstrates hireability).

Maybe start a small recording studio on the side (which can be done fairly cheaply now; a friend of mine does this and he put less than $1000 into it, most of that his tape deck and its special sound card) that handles anything from garage bands to radio advertising. Wouldn't be much money, but if you can get into housing with little or no monthly payment, you don't need much. And it gets you known. My friend went from recording 10 bar bands a year to around 150 a year, just from word of mouth (albeit in L.A., where there's tons of bands).

Background checks cross state lines, but if your husband is willing to go hat-in-hand humbly asking for a new start (and is honest about himself -- there's nothing a boss hates more than being lied to!), sooner or later someone is likely to give him a chance, and then it's up to him to prove himself. A little freely helping out whoever he meets wouldn't hurt, either.

Now, I don't know Glasgow itself, but I'd think having once been an air base town, it'd be historically a bit more used to and accepting of new folks.

Anyway, good luck!
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:13 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
If it were me I'd head to the oil fields where it's apperently booming and workers can be hard to come by for all jobs from food service to rig work. Having worked in construction heavy equipment, we didn't care about the past, only that you were a good hard worker that showed up every day hopefully sober and did your job without bitching all the time. Good way to get a fresh start and show you'll work hard!
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